How is Zyngo not gambling???

Can someone please explain this to me????

You can play a perfect game and get a devil in round 20 and lose it all.

How on earth is this a game of skill???

It isn't, and people who say it is are lying.

Zyngo is a game that have some part of skill in it, but with the new autoplay function you can actually win without doing anything else. And as you say, if your over the payout limit and then get a devil in round 20 that takes 50%, thats NOT skill.

I have over and over and asked Linden Labs about this. I have asked in what way games like Zyngo, there are other ones as well, is skill and not gambling, but Linden Labs refuse to answer.

It's gambling. Have a nice day, you're on your own, good night. (^_^)y

Yeah, it's a hoot that Zyngo isn't considered gambling, whereas poker is (regardless of the fact that the better players routinely walk away with the money).

Chalk it up to a policy that isn't intended to be sensible. It's a policy that has exactly ONE purpose: to avoid being considered "illegal internet gambling" by credit card companies, who by US Federal law are prohibited from funding "illegal internet gambling". "Illegal ambling" isn't defined in the US Federal law, but of course, THAT law isn't intended to be sensible either; it was intended to mollify a political coalition.

It shouldn't be surprising that the policy isn't sensible.

LL even published a list of criteria for gambling, and IN THE SAME POST listed a number of games they considered gambling that was blatantly contradictory to the criteria. If it were a high school project and I was grading it, they'd get a C-. But it's not, it's a legal dodge, just like age verification.

It matters not one bit whether it's sensible or effective, it only matters whether it covers their legal derriere. That's called "business as usual" in the real world.

It IS a game of skill. When I first started playing, and did not know what moves to make - my score was really low. Once I learned the right strategy, the scores increased dramatically. Skill and strategy is involved. I would tell you "how" but I don't want to compete against you for the jackpots.

Have you achieved 100% payout? (^_^)y

What do you mean?

I love how Linden totally ignores all these discussions and we all know why...

Linden Labs are making Big money thanks to people playing games like Zyngo. No wonder they want to keep them In world.
Everyone knows that Zyngo is based on luck more then skill. Everyone knows that the devil can change a good score to nothing in seconds and you can't do shit about it. Everyone knows that the whole Gambling rule is pure b-llshit as long as games as Zyngo is allowed, but nothing happens.

I wonder what FBI would say about it...

The first time i played Black Jack i didn't know what to do, or what cards to take. Then I learned. Does that make Black Jack a skill game?

I dont think so

And do you also mean that you can control the devils so they wont show up on round 20 and take 50%

I don't think so

There is no way to speculate what they would or would not say... the only way to find out is to ask them.

Not everyone. I have no idea what "the devil" is as it relates to Zyngo. I have no idea what Zyngo is beyond the fact that it is a slot machine of sorts for that matter.

Same as Monopoly. No guarantee that the player across the board won't nab Boardwalk and Park Place, or hit Free Parking.

Do your research on games of skill being offered in US communities that do not allow gambling. They do it the same way, and the machines which involve "skill" look just like a regular slot machine.

ETA: should read, "do not allow gambling on games of chance".....all they do is add a little function to a regular slot machine to make it a game of skill. Pretty much the same slot machine as you would see in a casino. These are not underground - but very public - totally acceptable by the way the law is written.
I still may not have the proper wording correct - but you get my drift. Probably shouldn't have used the word "gambling."

Poker is also a game of skill involving an element of chance, but it's banned.

Monopoly would probably be banned if it involved $L.

As I said above, the policy is capricious and subject to interpretation by whoever goes to investigate a particular claim.

Starfire, your right.

Problem for me is that I am Swedish, and our laws here is a little more open and more free then the american laws, and also...FBI don't care about Swedes

More fun to SPECULATE.

well we all talked alot about this things, all i can say is that it was not legal for some days but then Linden checked it again and Zyngo was ok. if you like to know more details you need to talk to aargle. First game that was allowed by Lindens was Streetz and btw i also have created a Monopoly with money and its also ok

cya

Well, isnt that the biggest problem here, no one seem to know the truth.
Some say Linden checked Zyngo before and approved it, others are saying that Linden never check the games before so you have to have faith that your games will get approved if a Linden visit your sim/place.

But everyone knows that Zyngo is everything else then a skillgame. We also know that Zyngo is programmed to be a skillgame.

I just took a nice picture inside SL from a Zyngo machine. The payout score was 64 999 and I ended on 57520. The whole board was cleared but then....the devil came on round 20 and took 40%
Is that skill? What could I have done diffrent so the devil wouldn't have turned up? NOTHING!

Linden Labs made a choice and they banned Black Jack, poker and so on. They even banned it so hard so your not even allowed to use those words in search or classified. (great future for the free speach by the way) then, as usual, they dont even themself knows what rules to follow.

And yes, I have tried to ask the creator of Zyngo about this but the answer I got was something like "You can choose to be smart, or stupid as many"

What i more then anything else would like to know is how much money Linden Labs gets from those who trade in dollars to Lindens just to play Zyngo. I think the answer why Zyngo is allowed is just that, money, and also of course why others like Deal and King Big also is allowed.

Maybe it would be better if Linden Labs moved to Europe. Or if they want to stay in US, starts to follow their own rules. But maybe they are to occupied playing Zyngo...

The thing I don't understand is how can you have many skill games inside a computer environment. The only way you could really do this is to set the randomness needed to win before the player interacts with it.. make it possible to win.. and then let the player use skill to determine the way to win. Having a devil just "pop up randomly" before you can win is not skill.. it is chance. Having a predetermined time limit which is obtainable under practiced levels.. that would be skill based.

It happened to me, too, Walentine. The last time I played Zyngo, iI was already beaten the score in turn 17. Then, the devil appeared in rows 18, 19 and 20, taken from 20% to 40% each. How could skill beat this? It is clearly programmed to only allow a player to win just a few times. Almost all the time it simply don't let you beat the score, no matter what have you made during all the game.

I've never played it, but an element of chance does not rule out skill.

Consider blackjack. Played poorly, you lose money rather quickly. Played with perfect strategy but not counting cards, the expectation is nearly 1 -- that is, you almost break even. Add card-counting, and you can raise the expectation above 1 -- that is, you tend to win more than you lose. However, the outcome of any particular hand has a large random component to it. It's only in the long run where skill determines the result.

The same is true of monopoly and backgammon. A lucky roll in backgammon can turn a losing situation into a winning one. A good player can (a) help avoid losing situations by good strategy, and (b) capitalize on understanding the win/loss odds by using the doubling cube (essentially, offering or refusing a double-or-nothing gambit). It doesn't take long for a good player to substantially outwin a bad one.

But even a bad player can win a game or two against a good player, thanks to luck.

The devil doesn't rule out the possibility that zyngo is a game of skill. It could easily be the case that if you play perfect strategy, and the devil hits you a typical amount, that you would typically win.

What makes it a game of skill or not is what happens elsewhere, not whether there's a random devil. As evil as he may seem, he does not make this unquestionably a game of chance alone.

The reason that poker is outlawed but ayngo is not has nothing to do with the LL's definition of gambling or any game-theoritic differences between the two games. The reason is simply that poker is considered gambling by most legal authorities, whereas zyngo is not on their radars. Oddly enough, either is Bingo, which is pure gambling, but since it's generally not a big money casino game, and it *is* played at so many church functions, it's not politically acceptable to call it gambling.

In any case, I hope LL is consistent. If they conclude that zyngo is not gambling, I hope they stick to that as long as they can.

As I said, this has nothingn to do with logic. It has to do with law and politics. Don't expect rational outcomes.

Indeed. It's all PR.

You're wrong, no one cares about swedes lol (or turnips and radishes for that matter either)

But I was under the impression from some other RCE "service" provider that gambling is illegal under the web entertainment license too in Sweden?

I think the problem is that no matter where you go in the world you will always find someone to whine about it, I am from England, I am over 21 and should have the RIGHT to gamble if I so wish, yet am constrained by American law.

Lets face it here, gambling is not anything to do with crime or other things it brings, it is to do with TAXES, which is why it is pretty much illegal in America...they cannot effectively tax it so they simply banned it outright.

And if people think my answer is full of crap ask yourself this, if they truly wanted to get rid of crime why go after gambling which accounts for the only fun most adults get instead of closing down all the gun shops and liquor stores in certain areas of the cities?

The way I see it is that any game that requires you to part with something you own for the chance of getting more at the risk of loss of your stake is gambling, regardless of what worthless politicians or lawyers say.

If poker and blackjack and real games of skill are banned then zymbagoao or whatever it is called should be too.