Casino Games

Here's a question that im thinking nobody will be able to answer, hehe.

How fair are the casino games in SL? I mean how do we know that the scripts running them are designed never to pay out?

Is there any sort of rules governing the casino games in SL?

Just curiosity really.


Ben
XxX

Nope. No rules. Either trust them or don't.

Wow. I have to admit that sounds a bit poo. If LL are trying to develop an online universe as it where (and doing a good job so far ) I think it would be much better if there were some specific rules and regulations governing the casino games.

Just like most countries have gambling regulations and most casino websites are goverened by these rules.

But what would you suggest? Firstly this is an international community. Which country's rules would you play by? How would you ensure it wasn't then illegal in a players own country?

How would they verify that games adhered to whatever set of rules they finally come up with? The Lindens would have to manually review and pass each and every script before it can be used in a casino.

And how would you govern what scripts should be submitted for review? What constitutes a gambling game? Is it any game of chance that involves payment? So, Tringo, for example?

It's... unworkable. Which is why it is like it is. It's up for you the player to decide whether you trust that casino, its owners and its games. If LL take any level of responsibility for that they'll be inundated with people who just lost all their money gambling screaming for reimbursements!

Hmmm, I never thought about any of that. My only line of thinking was that at the moment, there are no rules which leaves SL open to all sorts of con artists, and crooks.

Which wont be very good for its reputation.

I agree, but this isn't a Linden job. If some residents created the "Second Life Gaming Commission", set some rules, auditted source code and created a seal of approval, then people could trust Casino machines, or whole Casino's that had the seal of approval. Market forces would then cause Casino owners to seek out certification.

Secondlife is a game

Casino's in secondlife are for entertainment only, they're not for gambling big bux.

Too many people forget about this and it needs to be made more clear.

Dress up, get a martini attachment, gamble 50 L$ on the slots, but that's about it.

Also, you shouldn't be profitting off your casino. That's a very big no no in the US, and frankly, not really a good idea period for many reasons.

It should be like Yahoo has gambling games where you play for funny money, and they make money by feeding you advertisements.

Do the same in SL.

I gotta say I'm not really for this. Lemme tell you why: I wouldn't trust some of the loudest proponents and self appointed leaders of this kind of initiative as far as I could throw them (though I'd like to throw them far). I would not submit my code to these people for review because I wouldn't trust them with it.

That's the same with any of these Better Business Bureau type ideas that have come up so far. As far as I'm concerned, they all have their own little agendas and a stack of conflict of interest.

So what? Market forces being as you suggest, I should then lose business when my stuff is every bit as reputable and innocent as their members purely because I don't want to join their ranks of the perceivedly reputable?

I'd rather just leave it up to the customer, thanks.

I make a lot of casino games. The only way your games will get played consistently, and owners will purchase them, is if they are solid, fair and display odds. Sure there are a lot of con artists in SL. But how many times are you going to play their games if all they ever do is take money and not pay back?

A decent casino game will be fun to play and payback at least 90% of the time with a shot at some big payout. I won't post code to some player commission because the same con artists may be running that. I've lost enough code and products in those situations. I rely on playability and reputation.

It's the wrong attitude. Casino games for profit are illegal, as in you will get arrested and goto jail.

Plain and freaking simple.

They should be for entertainment only - ie, neither player or owner makes money.

Since I both operate and sell my casino games, I get complaints from both players ("this game is rigged", and casino owners ("this game is bugged", and I'd really like to be able to submit my code to a third party and have them audit it.

The problem is trust. Who can we trust to give out our code to? The only answer that seems to satisfy everybody is "the Lindens". I doubt that the lindens with all the stuff on their plate would have the time to audit every gambling game in SL. And, frankly, I'd rather have the Lindens fix SL bugs, and get Havok 2 out the door.

So, the only recourse for those of us who run casinos is to slowly but surely build a trust relationship between us and our gamers. And part of that is building solid, reliable, and fair casino games. (Insofar as casino games can be called "fair" but that is another discussion entirely)

For gamblers, unfortunately, this means you might lose some money in disreputable establishments before you find a place you can trust. Or just come to Heisenberg Casino.

I %100 disagree.

We need to stress this is for entertainment only and keep stressing that. That way, nobody gets burned.

You make good points. I don't really care either way, I don't gamble much in SL, and when I do, I usually do it under the assumption I'm going to lose (just like my assumption when I go to Vegas in real life).

As far as motives... well most people have motives. If the motives is to profit from being a trusted entity, than that puts more pressure to keep them in line. It's like not trusting Verisign because they want to make a profit.

My main point was that if people want things like this, they should do it, not expect the Lindens to.



Umm... that's what market forces means. If the customer only wants to use gaming machines certified by some group, then they are making a market decisions. I also disagree with your implications that altruism doesn't exisit.

You shouldn't be wasting your money in a casino anyway, its a mugs game

Basically I think it's also a matter of learning the games, trying out a large variety, and seeing which ones are more generous than others.

I hope this isn't in violation of the ROC but I will try to stick to items, rather than the creators.

I'm a big slot junkie and i'm always looking for and playing the various slot machines around SL, and run my own casino, and collect slot machines. And those especially show the disparagies in the odds of winning, addictiveness, and keeping the player playing, as well as IMHO, the worst at being modified to the point of truly being "one-armed bandits".


The Acidic line of slot machines are very well done, very popular, and easy to get for casino's. and to me show the greatest range of odds. For instance the unmodified Jungle Boogie and Crazy 7's are much more generous than say the Garden of Eden or Alien Alert. The Acidics are prime examples of how slot machines of the same creator can vary greatly in their odds. And heaven help the casino owner who puts in unmodified Sultan's Fortune slot machines. LOL

Moonshine's collection of publically available slot machines are very solid, and nearly all of them has the same odds. A few are more unforgiving than others, IMO, after a few thousand $L dropped on them and playing them out of my personal collection, but for the most part are very solid, and pay enough to keep the players playing and a very reasonable chance at coming away with more than they put in.

I've played Heidelberg's publically available color slots as well, but was never a fond of machines that you had to pay in every time you wanted to take a spin, so didn't invest too much time and money in those. Though I do have his video poker and blackjack tables in my own casino.

The recently made available line of slots and free play system from Tin Bling (Maintenance Money, Chatter Time, My Computer, ect) is also a very solid line of machines that have odds and playability close to Moonshine's line, but with a bit more variation on pay-outs, such as between Maintanence Money (around 90%) to Chatter Time (maybe 75% probably lower), but not quite as generous in the higher pay-outs as with Moonshine's, it's closest comparison in the $1-5-10 range of publically available slot machines. But then, the crowning jewel of Tin's line is the publically available free play system that works flawlessly with his line of machines and turns his line of machines into an addictive powerhouse for casino operators.

I do wish Bravo Bravo would release their Mega-Buck progressive machine, currently in seemingly permanent beta testing, as I am extremely impressed with that one as far as odds and keeping the players playing. I have honestly put in $99 on their beta model at Tropics casino and played it for over an hour on several instances. To me, that one, if ever released to the public will truly be the standard benchmark to which other slot machines will be compared to by players, as it will definitely spoil them as to getting their money's worth in play time, and for casino operators in bolstering dwell by keeping players "chained" to a machine for long amounts of addictive play time.

I'm glad you enjoy it. Megabucks progressive slot machine was really meant to be run globally by one individual. Which it is right now - me. It is out of Beta. In fact we already have had one Megabucks winner - Slaphshot Zamboni to the tune of over L$8000.

As far as releasing it goes - I need to sit down and retool it for resale. I also need to retexture it in various forms. The reason it is so much fun to play is that I built in technology that came straight from the RL counterparts. It has weighted values for each reel stop. So I can weigh the Cherries more heavily. Anyhow - yes I will put these out one day.

You can play it at Bravo Bravo with all my other machines btw.

Ahh, nice, especially since we're neighbors (We own Chatelaine in the Thunberg sim - just one sim over), so I'll be walking over there quite frequently to play it now that you have one out there...heh, hopefully you have a few out since all of the Chatelaine staff enjoy playing it. In my past visits all I saw of it was the beta testing cubes in your R&D level.

Yeah I did a big rework of Bravo Bravo. It is now a 4 story skyscraper with everything out and packaged nice and neat. Hope to see you there.