Second Life Forums Archive - small object culling

Eep Quirk

Absolutely Relative

Join date: 15 Dec 2004

Posts: 1,211

03-06-2006 22:20

I don't know if it's still in SL 1.9 (I refuse to download and install another bloatware SL to try it on a separate grid), but ever since SL 1.8.2 introduced small object culling (removing small objects from view when the avatar--not the camera--is a certain distance away) it has been annoying.

I thought small object culling was only supposed to apply to attachments? It happens for EVERY prim! It's not even consistent about which objects are culled either. I set up 10 .5m cubes in a row, spaced in 1m increments, and moving back, 7 of them disappeared at once! Why didn't the furthest prim disappear first, then closest, etc? A linked object will simply have the whole thing culled even though some prims might be closer to the avatar!

Changing avatar/object LOD in preferences doesn't have any effect on linked objects either (but does on unlinked prims--it's inconsistent and I could've sworn didn't work when I tested it when posting about particles disappearing too soon--see thread link at bottom), despite what I had read to the contrary (despite what the release notes :

From: someone

* Avatar LOD system
** Improves viewer performance by selectively culling the display of attachments to agents a certain distance away from
the person viewing them
** Uses the Preferences > Advanced Graphics > Avatar Detail slider to determine which attachments will be displayed

This also screws up particles as described in this thread.

Torley Linden

Enlightenment!

Join date: 15 Sep 2004

Posts: 16,530

03-06-2006 22:27

Eep, what you describe actually happened before 1.8.2--which specifically introduced culling for attachments.

It was ReallyRick Metropolitan who first brought this to my attention, when he had his Linden bears lined up and some of them disappeared before others when we walked backwards.

I remember seeing this effect of the default plywood cubes being culled too near as early as Preview 1.7. Linking small objects to bigger ones is a workaround, but as we've both noticed, linking a lot of 0.5 m^3 cubes together doesn't make a difference.

I've bugreported this and it is in the queue to be investigated further.

_____________________

Eep Quirk

Absolutely Relative

Join date: 15 Dec 2004

Posts: 1,211

03-07-2006 01:41

I didn't notice it until 1.8.2 though...but then I had my object LOD maxed UNTIL that build (since it didn't help avatar lag).

Ever since SL 1.7 avatar lag has been HORRENDOUS. When is it going to be fixed? Something in 1.7 screwed it up and, obviously, avatar/object LOD hasn't helped any so it's, again obviously, something else. Please see what Vektor Linden says about this because I remember him telling me it was something to do with AGP texture caching/bandwidth or whatever but I don't remember exactly. I IMed him a week or so ago about it but never got a response.

Candide LeMay

Registered User

Join date: 30 Dec 2004

Posts: 538

03-07-2006 12:10

What's especially retarded about this culling is that it's based on avatar position and ignores the camera. So I can be zoomed directly on a culled prim with my camera and I still won't see it. Sometimes you have to wonder if the people who code these tools use them for real work inworld at all.

_____________________

"If Mel Gibson and other cyberspace writers are right, one day the entire internet will be like Second Life." -- geldonyetich

Nathan Stewart

Registered User

Join date: 2 Feb 2005

Posts: 1,039

03-07-2006 12:20

Object culling works at the moment by using the largest object in the linkset to set the cull distance, ie 3x 0.5 cubes linked will cull as fast a 1 x 0.5m cube, but 2x 0.5 m cubes and a 1meter cube linked will be seen further away.

_____________________

Travis Lambert

White dog, red collar

Join date: 3 Jun 2004

Posts: 2,819

03-07-2006 12:40

I've been noticing this really annoying behavior across sim boundaries.

I have a couple scripts sitting in 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5m cubes that activate on touch.

My build straddles two sims, so all the time I'm sitting in one sim or the other.

I've noticed that when I'm in Isabel for example, I can't see the clickable cubes in Wingo, and vice versa. If I nudge myself just into the sim.... poof, they appear.

It sucks, because they're not *that* far away when culled... less than 30m.

_____________________

------------------
The Shelter

The Shelter is a non-profit recreation center for new residents, and supporters of new residents. Our goal is to provide a positive & supportive social environment for those looking for one in our overwhelming world.

Eep Quirk

Absolutely Relative

Join date: 15 Dec 2004

Posts: 1,211

03-07-2006 12:59

From: Nathan Stewart

Object culling works at the moment by using the largest object in the linkset to set the cull distance, ie 3x 0.5 cubes linked will cull as fast a 1 x 0.5m cube, but 2x 0.5 m cubes and a 1meter cube linked will be seen further away.

But, the thing is, non-attachments should NOT be culled under the draw distance. The release notes explicitly state ONLY attachments are to be culled. This is a bug.

Nathan Stewart

Registered User

Join date: 2 Feb 2005

Posts: 1,039

03-07-2006 13:06

From: Eep Quirk

But, the thing is, non-attachments should NOT be culled under the draw distance. The release notes explicitly state ONLY attachments are to be culled. This is a bug.

No the bug was that attachments werent being culled, while objects were being culled they fixed that bug by bringing in the avatar lod system as described above, as far as i know the slider for object quality doesnt affect the object lod

_____________________

Eep Quirk

Absolutely Relative

Join date: 15 Dec 2004

Posts: 1,211

03-07-2006 13:17

Weird I never noticed the non-attachment object culling before 1.8.2 (when I noticed particles were getting clipped too soon) but that's probably because I kept object LOD always high (before 1.8.2!), which DOES have an effect on object culling but it's not always apparent (but moving away from the object and back can get it going--but not always).

Anyway, what's the point of non-attachment object culling anyway? That's what the draw distance is for (which I think should have a lower setting--at least 32m). LL just needs to fix the REAL issue that's causing the lag, which, according to Vektor Linden, is AGP pipeline bandwidth/caching something-or-other...

small object culling
Eep Quirk Absolutely Relative Join date: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 1,211	03-06-2006 22:20 I don't know if it's still in SL 1.9 (I refuse to download and install another bloatware SL to try it on a separate grid), but ever since SL 1.8.2 introduced small object culling (removing small objects from view when the avatar--not the camera--is a certain distance away) it has been annoying. I thought small object culling was only supposed to apply to attachments? It happens for EVERY prim! It's not even consistent about which objects are culled either. I set up 10 .5m cubes in a row, spaced in 1m increments, and moving back, 7 of them disappeared at once! Why didn't the furthest prim disappear first, then closest, etc? A linked object will simply have the whole thing culled even though some prims might be closer to the avatar! Changing avatar/object LOD in preferences doesn't have any effect on linked objects either (but does on unlinked prims--it's inconsistent and I could've sworn didn't work when I tested it when posting about particles disappearing too soon--see thread link at bottom), despite what I had read to the contrary (despite what the release notes : From: someone * Avatar LOD system Improves viewer performance by selectively culling the display of attachments to agents a certain distance away from the person viewing them Uses the Preferences > Advanced Graphics > Avatar Detail slider to determine which attachments will be displayed This also screws up particles as described in this thread.
Torley Linden Enlightenment! Join date: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 16,530	03-06-2006 22:27 Eep, what you describe actually happened before 1.8.2--which specifically introduced culling for attachments. It was ReallyRick Metropolitan who first brought this to my attention, when he had his Linden bears lined up and some of them disappeared before others when we walked backwards. I remember seeing this effect of the default plywood cubes being culled too near as early as Preview 1.7. Linking small objects to bigger ones is a workaround, but as we've both noticed, linking a lot of 0.5 m^3 cubes together doesn't make a difference. I've bugreported this and it is in the queue to be investigated further. _____________________
Eep Quirk Absolutely Relative Join date: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 1,211	03-07-2006 01:41 I didn't notice it until 1.8.2 though...but then I had my object LOD maxed UNTIL that build (since it didn't help avatar lag). Ever since SL 1.7 avatar lag has been HORRENDOUS. When is it going to be fixed? Something in 1.7 screwed it up and, obviously, avatar/object LOD hasn't helped any so it's, again obviously, something else. Please see what Vektor Linden says about this because I remember him telling me it was something to do with AGP texture caching/bandwidth or whatever but I don't remember exactly. I IMed him a week or so ago about it but never got a response.
Candide LeMay Registered User Join date: 30 Dec 2004 Posts: 538	03-07-2006 12:10 What's especially retarded about this culling is that it's based on avatar position and ignores the camera. So I can be zoomed directly on a culled prim with my camera and I still won't see it. Sometimes you have to wonder if the people who code these tools use them for real work inworld at all. _____________________ "If Mel Gibson and other cyberspace writers are right, one day the entire internet will be like Second Life." -- geldonyetich
Nathan Stewart Registered User Join date: 2 Feb 2005 Posts: 1,039	03-07-2006 12:20 Object culling works at the moment by using the largest object in the linkset to set the cull distance, ie 3x 0.5 cubes linked will cull as fast a 1 x 0.5m cube, but 2x 0.5 m cubes and a 1meter cube linked will be seen further away. _____________________
Travis Lambert White dog, red collar Join date: 3 Jun 2004 Posts: 2,819	03-07-2006 12:40 I've been noticing this really annoying behavior across sim boundaries. I have a couple scripts sitting in 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5m cubes that activate on touch. My build straddles two sims, so all the time I'm sitting in one sim or the other. I've noticed that when I'm in Isabel for example, I can't see the clickable cubes in Wingo, and vice versa. If I nudge myself just into the sim.... poof, they appear. It sucks, because they're not that far away when culled... less than 30m. _____________________ ------------------ The Shelter The Shelter is a non-profit recreation center for new residents, and supporters of new residents. Our goal is to provide a positive & supportive social environment for those looking for one in our overwhelming world.
Eep Quirk Absolutely Relative Join date: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 1,211	03-07-2006 12:59 From: Nathan Stewart Object culling works at the moment by using the largest object in the linkset to set the cull distance, ie 3x 0.5 cubes linked will cull as fast a 1 x 0.5m cube, but 2x 0.5 m cubes and a 1meter cube linked will be seen further away. But, the thing is, non-attachments should NOT be culled under the draw distance. The release notes explicitly state ONLY attachments are to be culled. This is a bug.
Nathan Stewart Registered User Join date: 2 Feb 2005 Posts: 1,039	03-07-2006 13:06 From: Eep Quirk But, the thing is, non-attachments should NOT be culled under the draw distance. The release notes explicitly state ONLY attachments are to be culled. This is a bug. No the bug was that attachments werent being culled, while objects were being culled they fixed that bug by bringing in the avatar lod system as described above, as far as i know the slider for object quality doesnt affect the object lod _____________________
Eep Quirk Absolutely Relative Join date: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 1,211	03-07-2006 13:17 Weird I never noticed the non-attachment object culling before 1.8.2 (when I noticed particles were getting clipped too soon) but that's probably because I kept object LOD always high (before 1.8.2!), which DOES have an effect on object culling but it's not always apparent (but moving away from the object and back can get it going--but not always). Anyway, what's the point of non-attachment object culling anyway? That's what the draw distance is for (which I think should have a lower setting--at least 32m). LL just needs to fix the REAL issue that's causing the lag, which, according to Vektor Linden, is AGP pipeline bandwidth/caching something-or-other...

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small object culling