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Vehicle Problems

Deira Llanfair
Deira to rhyme with Myra
Join date: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 2,315
04-12-2008 15:04
Regretably we have had to take our Couples Skating System off the market as it has not worked correctly since the Havok upgrade.

We are currently investigating if we can do anything to fix it and will provide a free upgrade to our customers if a solution is found.

An issue has ben raised on JIRA, but it is, as yet, unassigned.

Please vote for JIRA Issue: SVC - 2047, link below:

http://jira.secondlife.com./browse/SVC-2047

This is an issue that must be causing problems in many other products as well as ours, so please vote to get this problem fixed.
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Deira :)
Must create animations for head-desk and palm-face!.
AWM Mars
Scarey Dude :¬)
Join date: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,398
04-14-2008 07:17
Hmmm.. I was going to support your post, when I tried to loggin the Jira, I got this message:
Cause:
edu.yale.its.tp.cas.client.CASAuthenticationException: Unable to validate ProxyTicketValidator [[edu.yale.its.tp.cas.client.ProxyTicketValidator proxyList=[null] [edu.yale.its.tp.cas.client.ServiceTicketValidator casValidateUrl=[https://jira.secondlife.com/cas/serviceValidate] ticket=[ST-4373-WHNGqDkVfT5G7OjAU2YgX6bHVOzeHrIHdCt-20] service=[http%3A%2F%2Fjira.secondlife.com%2Fbrowse%2FSVC-2047] errorCode=[INVALID_SERVICE] errorMessage=[ticket 'ST-4373-WHNGqDkVfT5G7OjAU2YgX6bHVOzeHrIHdCt-20' does not match supplied service] renew=false entireResponse=[<cas:serviceResponse xmlns:cas='http://www.yale.edu/tp/cas'> <cas:authenticationFailure code='INVALID_SERVICE'> ticket 'ST-4373-WHNGqDkVfT5G7OjAU2YgX6bHVOzeHrIHdCt-20' does not match supplied service </cas:authenticationFailure> </cas:serviceResponse> ]]]]

LOL.. seems they have more problems than they can fix.
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Deira Llanfair
Deira to rhyme with Myra
Join date: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 2,315
04-15-2008 06:59
Oh law!!!!!

Maybe you hit the time slot when the Support Portal was down for maintenance?

Certainly looks like it needs some maintenance or CPR equivalent!
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Deira :)
Must create animations for head-desk and palm-face!.
Darien Caldwell
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,127
04-15-2008 12:15
They changed a lot of things about how vehicles work with Havok 4. I don't think it's necessarily a bug, it could be though.

They invited vehicle creators to try their creations in the Havok 4 sims over the last 6 months to make sure everything was working. Did you notice this during the Havok Beta?
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Viktoria Dovgal
Join date: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 3,593
04-15-2008 14:01
That bug report is going to need much much more information before anyone will do anything about it, because in general that function is working. A stripped down example script demonstrating a problem would go a long way toward that.

In the other JIRA entry I linked you to in the other thread, there was an offer from one of the Lindens to look at broken vehicles. You might follow up with that route.
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Winter Ventura
Eclectic Randomness
Join date: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2,579
04-15-2008 22:06
as a vehicle developer.. I can tell you, we weren't "invited".

I took my vehicles to the havoc sims a few times, and found it so unstable that I just couldn't BEGIN to say what was wrong. Even got into a fight when "a slow flight across the sim" turned into "a lightspeed slam into someone". My partner and I decided to wait.. and rather than trying to fix what Linden Labs broke, we waited until the Havok 4 was actually released, so we could then rebuild our vehicles to whatever the standard would end up being.

Because the ways in which things were broken, changed every time they refreshed the betas and whatnot.

I sent Sidewinder a copy of one of my cars. He said it worked fine

Havok's here.. and Havok is a good name for it. It doesn't worjk fine, and there's a lot of work to be done just to make it drive the way it used to.
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Blaze Nielsen
Registered User
Join date: 24 May 2005
Posts: 276
what a mess
04-15-2008 22:24
As a business person here in sl, I don't have the time to play around in a beta grid to see the daily problems of software design. I assume Lindens will fix the issues before releasing a new version. WRONG. Now so many things have had to be reworked, it is a customer service nightmare. OK, rant over, back to work.
Viktoria Dovgal
Join date: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 3,593
04-15-2008 22:41
Scripts are software, and makers of scripted objects are application software developers. Slogging through the bugs and testing that software in upcoming versions of the operating environment is absolutely a part of the development process.

Operating system makers send their ISVs prerelease builds for exactly the same kinds of testing, and the instability of prerelease environments is part and parcel of that. It's fine to wait and see what happens at release time if the scripted things are hobbies, but braving the beta glitches is simply part of the routine if the application software is supposed to be a real business.
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Darien Caldwell
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,127
04-16-2008 11:52
From: Winter Ventura
as a vehicle developer.. I can tell you, we weren't "invited".

I took my vehicles to the havoc sims a few times, and found it so unstable that I just couldn't BEGIN to say what was wrong. Even got into a fight when "a slow flight across the sim" turned into "a lightspeed slam into someone". My partner and I decided to wait.. and rather than trying to fix what Linden Labs broke, we waited until the Havok 4 was actually released, so we could then rebuild our vehicles to whatever the standard would end up being.

Because the ways in which things were broken, changed every time they refreshed the betas and whatnot.

I sent Sidewinder a copy of one of my cars. He said it worked fine

Havok's here.. and Havok is a good name for it. It doesn't worjk fine, and there's a lot of work to be done just to make it drive the way it used to.



I agree, but then I don't. I do not make vehicles, but I do make things that were affected by the Havok 4 rollout. While you don't have to go and try your things after every single update, it's a good idea to at least see what doesn't work, and file a JIRA. That's how I got several *major* issues resolved with H4 before it hit the main grid. And I'm doing the same with Mono now.

Btw, Mono will be coming sooner than some think, like in the next month or two. So I would urge people to go try their scripts now. The more bugs you report at this stage, the fewer problems later when it's grid wide.
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Deira Llanfair
Deira to rhyme with Myra
Join date: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 2,315
and now the good news.... :)
05-04-2008 04:39
Thanks for all your help and suggestions guys. The good news is that we have fixed it - or rather Sundi Metropolitan has re-written the scripts and our skating vehicle now works again.

For any of our customers reading here:

We fixed the Pro Couple Skates (set 1) so they operate properly with the new Havok4 physics engine. To receive a free upgrade, send your Pro Couple Skates (set 1) to Sundi Metropolitan and she will send you Pro Couple Skates (set 1) v1.1. The new version contains an automatic update capability for future releases.
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Deira :)
Must create animations for head-desk and palm-face!.
Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
05-04-2008 04:47
I've also discovered several odd bugs with vehicles recently, none of which were present even a few weeks ago. Not only vehicles actually.

This is why I don't bother testing products on the beta grid or preview sims - quite frankly it is a waste of my time, since by the point at which the release actually occurs, old bugs have vanished and new ones have appeared, thus you spend time fixing things which don't really need fixing (sometimes, even, you might need to reverse your fix) and still have to fix them afterwards.

Oh, it's useful as a part of the general development process of SL to do it, obviously, as any bugs you find may help Lindens to improve the system - I just don't consider it a productive way to spend time in the development process for the actual products.
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Kahiro Watanabe
Registered User
Join date: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 572
05-04-2008 09:07
From: Viktoria Dovgal
Scripts are software, and makers of scripted objects are application software developers. Slogging through the bugs and testing that software in upcoming versions of the operating environment is absolutely a part of the development process.

Operating system makers send their ISVs prerelease builds for exactly the same kinds of testing, and the instability of prerelease environments is part and parcel of that. It's fine to wait and see what happens at release time if the scripted things are hobbies, but braving the beta glitches is simply part of the routine if the application software is supposed to be a real business.


That's true, imagine a game like WOW change its physical engine, do you think that the actual objects will behave the same? Of course not. But objects are created by WOW employees. In SL is different because we are the ones creating content, therefore we are part of SL's development.
Draco18s Majestic
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 2,744
05-04-2008 11:17
From: Ordinal Malaprop
This is why I don't bother testing products on the beta grid or preview sims - quite frankly it is a waste of my time, since by the point at which the release actually occurs, old bugs have vanished and new ones have appeared, thus you spend time fixing things which don't really need fixing (sometimes, even, you might need to reverse your fix) and still have to fix them afterwards.


I'd still do it, at least to the extent of "this is how it's be having, where are the problems?" as to both report the bug, and in the event that it isn't fixed, you already know where the problem is and can get started on a work around.

I myself need to get into the beta grid more often as it is.