first person rendering

the camera system is very annoying to me.
My MMORPG experience was all games that made great use first person view ( mouselook in this game) and allowed you to use your mouse for interface stuff to. I also wish there was an run lock key and customizable ui buttons.
the ui is pre everquest under my opinion.

I haven't used first person view in any game, except in "Dungeon Master" and "Bloodwych" some years ago. Except when I wanted to look around better. That was not even possible in RuneScape. But it is true that it is difficult to move in Second Life. Here is what I think:

- Its very disturbing that movement of the avatar doesn't happen with mouse only. I think that mouse movement is really essential thing in user interface design. So, if I click both buttons, the avatar should move forward. And if I simultaneously move the mouse sideways, that should steer the avatar. If I left click and move mouse, the world should rotate around the avatar. If I right click and move mouse, the avatar should turn. Now it goes so that left click and move turns the avatar, right click highlights stuff and opens popup window, and both clicks also opens the popup

- If I look upwards with alt-pgDown I see what I am looking. But why it readjusts automatically to look downwards when I turn a little bit with left or right arrow key? I know its handy to use mouse with alt-key, but it would be even handier to let mouse hand rest for a while and just tap the arrow key a little. Most item pictures are above eye level, so it would be nice to freeze the view altitude.

I would like some of the extra mouse-movement controls that SL is lacking, using the arrow keys isn't that nice since they're over to the right, but I can't use WASD without closing the chat-bar

...if mouse clicks are movement, then...how does one interact with the world?

you hold a mouse button down to look around and when its not down its a pointer.

everquest, vanguard are the games to model an interactive UI over. the FPS rendering with the mouse control.

Just using the scroll wheel is a quick enough way to get into mouselook for me.

Sure it helps a bit. I tried it, and it gives you mouselook, but not much anything else. Still I think that basic elements of mouse movement should also be in good condition.

It should be possible to put a short delay before detecting clicks, so that if you click both buttons at the same time it can be treated differently.

Second life is not a Korean click and move game and it is not an FPS (first person shooter) game.

Click and move is very annoying and very unpractical not efficient and not fun. I use the arrow keys to move.. you know those keys between the key pad and numb pad.
those are much more practical common and all the way around better and more efficient.

Get use to it.

Second Life is not Korean click and move game nor First Person Shooter game. But why not? I think Second Life should not be only for scientific purposes. Its Second _Life_, and life contains also play and fun. And there are studies and practical products for changing studying more game like -experience. Second Life is part of the paradigm shift of learning, so I think SL should do everything it can to make the environment more natural for players.



If you don't want to click both mouse buttons to move forward, you don't have to. You can stick to arrow keys. In other games, I use both methods, mostly mouse though. If I can steer my avatar _plus_ interact with the world only with mouse, I can rest the other hand meanwhile.

Of course the enormous lag of SL reduces the enjoyment of mouse movement and all other movement too, but to fix lag I have suggested other things in other threads.



Why should I get used to use only arrow keys for movement? Just because you like to use them instead of mouse? If I want to move by clicking both mouse buttons, then I do like. And I am sure many others like also. There are other systems or games, that allow the _user_ to choose what method of movement s/he uses.



Programming languages have functions that know was the click double click, single click (left, right, or middle), and was it click only or just pressing the button. No time delays needed to program code.

If you could click to move in SL you would be flying all over the place. All of the time by all of the accidental clicks and builders would go crazy flying all over the place as they try to make stuff.

It would be far more aggravation and trouble then its worth.

Yes, but there could be a setting that enables / disables the mouse movement. And you would only move forward while holding the mouse buttons down.

You do if you want to detect a right AND a left click at the same time, as it's very, very difficult for a user to press both simultaneously, normally the computer will pick up one of them before the other.

You have no idea how much Bad HCI that is. No idea at all.
People expect that each "button" (or form of input) have one dedicated use. They can accept modifier keys (i.e. Ctrl, Shift, Alt, Mode, Function) to cause buttons to do new things, but tend towards not liking it (shift to do UPPER CASE being a big exception due to the widespread disuse of capital letters: only the beginnings of sentences.
But the sheer instant you make one button do two things depending on the click-hold delay and users start doing things they didn't want to do, or have the machine interpret their input "wrongly."
Did you know that some people have no clue between the difference of "click" and "double click"?
Did you know that some people have no concept of "click and drag"?
And not all of these people are over 50!
No joke, I know at least two people my age who DOUBLE CLICK EVERYTHING. And if that doesn't work, tripple click it. Internet being slow and not loading the page? Click again (twice).

There is no difficulties at all to click both mouse buttons simultaneously for movement and one click for selection what comes to my experience. I use it all the time when I play other games and it works perfectly. It can also be made so, that when you press the other button, nothing happens until you release it (=single click) or click also the other button (=both click), because programming language can detect pressing from clicking.

And if there is not such a function in a programming language, it can be made. The delay does not need to be long, because every one can click the both buttons very fast that is almost at the same time. And if some one is not fast enough (eg. s/he cannot click the both buttons at the same enough time), then s/he doesn't have to use that method but only arrow keys. No harm done, especially when you can switch between build mode and walk mode. And there could be a classic mode for slow people as an enhanced accessibility.

Analogue joystick would be great, imagine havng more than one walk/fly speed on demand anytime

1) first person defaults to build mode handling, you move a mouse curser like you would now in non mouselook mode. I should never EVER have to go into a 3rd person mode. If this is second life why can't i do everything through my eyes?
2) back button on mouse would be mouse look mode so you can look around in first person.
3) forward button on the mouse would be for auto walk so you don't have to hold a button down to move
4) all buttons are customizable
5) SL really needs a hotbutton bar for quick inventory changes, where you cand rag and drop outfits or make custom commands easily accessible with 1 button activation.
6) do not make things depend on mouse wheel clicking because on most mice that is the hardest button to click.

If you couldn't go into 3rd person mode, you'd never know you were naked, you'd never bother changing from the default AV either as you wouldn't know how bad you looked or even what you looked like
Hmm Maybe LL could use it as a way of resolving hair up the butt and ruthing issues
There's som BDSM collars about that will lock you into mouselook I think.

Maybe I'm just vain but I like seeing my avatar

The only time I ever use mouselook is if I'm in a tight space and the 3rd person camera is jumping around too much.

Of course, you could re-program your mouse to do as you wish. Most modern mouse software comes with customizable options. So, maybe you could reprogram your mouse to simulate the "up-arrow", for move forward, when both buttons are pressed.

Of course, and maybe I could even create Third Life.

I too can't stand starting at the ground all the time. I find myself resorting to mouselook often, even though I prefer 3rd person camera.

I want a way to change the camera default settings for angle, height, and position behind avatar, so that I can walk or fly up to a building without ten key presses to align myself with the door and get my camera through the walls.

Do you think this would take much programming to patch in?

All things should be customizable to suit every user, as a prim is modifiable to suit everyone's creativity.

You can sorta do this by wearing an attachment using a scripted camera:
http://lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=llSetCameraParams