Can't sit on phantom objects. odd behaviour

Can't tell if this is suppose to be this way, a know issue or some type of unexplained funkyness.

-Rez your default box. Raise it up off the ground. Set it to Phantom. Make sure nothing is intersecting it not even your AV. Now try to sit on it. Can't sit on it.

-Now lower it so it intersects the groud just a bit. Sit on it. Your Av sits but sits on the ground. While sitting move the box using Edit. You are linked ot the box.

Only work around it to set the SitTarget. odd? Is it a bug and what type if it is?

I just tried it [not the work-around, though], and I got the same results you did.

Perhaps a stupid question but why should you be able to sit on a phantom object? Isn't the whole point of making something phantom to be able to pass through it?

:-/

Well I ran into this problem when doing some scripting, and spent a couple hours trying to figure why I was not able to sit on a phantom object. It was just another limit I ran into or bug I don;t know. So if I'm not suppose t sit on it why do I still linked to it if the object is intersecting another physitcal object. Then there is the another thing putting a sit target allows a person to sit on it. just found it all very odd as to why it was works one time then stopped working another. So maybe the problem lies in that I should not get linked to it at all and link to the object it intersects.

I used to have no problem sitting on phantom objects.

Perhaps they never quite figured out how to prevent it before....it might have been a bug.


Common sense tells me that you should not be able to sit on something that you can pass through...agreed?

[sarcasm]And we shouldn't be able to fly either. Or shift from male to female avis at will.[/sarcasm]




Anyway, the old behavior was very useful. For instance, it's nice to have phantom pose balls. Although I just went to test this and I had no trouble sitting on my phantom poseballs.

Common sense says you shouldn't be able to sit partially embedded in an object, or that when you sit on an object you should sit where you clicked facing the nearest edge... as it is you have to find a point ON the edge close enough to the flat surface ... and make sure you're facing the right way so you don't end up with your legs embedded in the object.

Common sense also says that when you stand up from an object where there appears to be sufficient room to stand, you should stand up and not be forcibly ejected into the air.

Sitting on phantom objects solves the latter problem, and doesn't cause any more violation of the principle of least astonishment than the rest of the weird behaviour that you get from sitting.

As already noted, setting a sit target solves it for simple chairs. That doesn't work for things like benches and logs where you need multiple sit targets, unless you start putting poseballs everywhere ... which adds to the lag and prim count.

Who's fault is it that your Avi's butt is larger than the standard default Avi's butt.

isn't there a standard size that the poses are designed for?...if you're too far extreme from that then you'll get embedded body parts. And I believe the default Linden sit pose defaults to the center of an object...at least from what I've seen. If its a torus or ring then the default center is the center of the Prim radius. (i'e. a wall)...if its a large disk or cube then your default sit goes to the center of the prim.




yeah, that's always a fun one...I've been ejected about 10-20 meters from some poseballs.

Have you actually sat on an object... not a scripted object with a pose, just a random collection of prims, corners, curve, and edge... recently? It doesn't matter what shape the avatar is, sitting on a prim will embed at least part of you in it. I have Multiple Body Disorder... that is, I have about 90 different av folders each with their own shape. These shapes have sliders all over the place, from all-center to both extremes in just about every setting... and none of them can reliably sit on an arbitrary object without being partially or completely embedded in some of them.

And the shape of the avatar has nothing to do with the fact that sitting avatars are non-physical and SL will happily shove your legs through an adjacent prim in an object. Sit on a floor prim some time and watch yourself suddenly become a phantom as far as the adjacent prims in the floor are concerned.

The point is, when you sit on an object that object is phantom to you anyway, the fact that it was "solid" before you sat on it should be irrelevant.

Yes, I sit on nonscripted prims all of the time. That's how I noticed that my Avi always sits in the center of the prim.....the top surface.....but still the center.

I believe the size of the Avi does make a difference. The default sit pose is going to work off of your avatars center point (if I may use that term), and if your avi is say 6'2" tall and the default sit pose is designed for a 5'8" tall Avi, then there will be a discrepency in the sit.

Well anyways. Has it always been like this, not being able to sit on a non-scripted phantom chair? I just got sick of getting stuck on chairs or standing on them when standing up. So I thought changing them to phantom would would work. At least you wouldn't get stuck. I just was not expecting to sit on the floor and still be attached to the chair. It just seems a little messed up. But that is the least of the worries after todays up date 10/4/06.

I'll bet you a bazillion quatloos it doesn't.

Try sitting on a 10 meter cube and see what happens.

It doesn't matter what size or shape the avatar is, the butt is always embedded in the prim. Try it and see.

True enough - but if you are playin' an especially short avvie, your legs also end up partiually embedded in the cube.

Mari

When making my program for making pose within SL and dissecting the BVH files I found there is this invisible attachment point. It lies somwhere between your hips and knee. It look like SL uses this point and some other factors when it computes where you hip will end up when you sit on an object. So it gets a little complex and have never realy figure out what SL uses to offest your hip from the surface of an object. Even this point varties from AV to AV. But SL tries its best to firmly plant your butt on the seat except when the object is phanton

Yikes! A bazillion quatloos? too steep for me

You're right, I played around last night with diff sized cubes. It seems that the default Avi sit pose is designed for a 1 x 1 sitting surface. Any size bigger and it stays the same distance from the edge as the 1x1.
For some reason, at one time I had sat on something that was very large and I sat in the middle of it...which led me to believe that you sat in the middle no matter the size. Must have been a multiple prim object that I sat on...unbeknownst to me.

As for the butt being embedded. If you look at anybody sitting in RL, their butt is squashed and appears somewhat embedded....some more than others (hehe)
So, I think SL did the best that they could to try to make it look as realistic as possible. I, for one, would think it would look silly if we barely touched the surface of the sat upon object.

*nods*
yep everyone butt flattens out a little when sitting on somthing. Next time your in the office and no one is around sit on the photocopier and make a copy of you butt. You'll see what I mean. Oh and don't forget to remove the original.

From my earlier post [#5 in this thread]: