Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE

HORRIBLE Design Flaw: Open replaces Create

Oz Spade
ReadsNoPostLongerThanHand
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,708
09-01-2005 19:38
1.7 introduces the Open option in the Pie menu when right-clicking an object. This is fine, I think the idea of Open is great for newbies and I like the idea. HOWEVER! It replaces "Create" which is BAD BAD BAD. Why? Most places in SL are covered in Prims, when you want to create a new one, you usualy right click it and select Create.

"Use the Build in the toolbar instead!" Ok, but A) Thats annoying. B) What if you don't use the Toolbar? You're screwed. I *never* have the toolbar open myself, I find it annoying and I don't need it since I use keyshortcuts for everything. I'm screwed. How do I create new objects? I have to go into Edit instead of simply clicking Create.

Not only is it an inconvience, but it's a horrible thing for persistence. If you right click Land, you don't get Open where it is when right clicking a prim, you get Create. It's confusing and overall a bad idea.

Solution? Move "Rate" to "More", and replace "Rate" with "Open" and put back "Create". "Rate" you rarely need in a quick pinch, but "Create" you do.

PLEASE put back Create and move Open somewhere else.
_____________________
"Don't anticipate outcome," the man said. "Await the unfolding of events. Remain in the moment." - Konrad
Aaron Levy
Medicated Lately?
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,147
09-01-2005 19:40
Yeah I noticed that, too, and didn't like the new only way to start a prim.
CrystalShard Foo
1+1=10
Join date: 6 Feb 2004
Posts: 682
09-01-2005 19:46
Fact is, most of the members in SecondLife who stop being a newbie abandon most of the tool-bar buttons and begin to use either shortcuts or the Pie-Menu which are both faster and more intuitive then the menu.

The tool-bar's only advantage is easy visibility for the fresh newbie.

As the newbie progress, s/he will slowly abandon the tool-bar for his own choice of faster access to commands.

Create is what SecondLife is based on. Its promiment place in the pie-menu shows that SecondLife is first and most about creating. Its a subtle psycological effect, but it works. There's no other system where creating a new object is as straight forward as Right-click -> Create.

Please return Create to its proper place in the pie-menu. This is not just for old-timers, but future newbies as well. If you have to put Open somewhere else, please use the Rate > optoin. The reason is simple:

The command Create is used daily by most of the people in SecondLife in a massive quantity. I'm fairly sure that atleast once in every three seconds, someone clicks that command.

Rate > however is barely touched or used. If you have to move away any of the commands, i'd point at Rate. Please put it in More >, where it belongs.
Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
09-01-2005 19:50
Agree. OPEN is something I've personally pushed for and it's great to have it in, but just like a color wheel, you don't put the spectrum out of order—furthermore, it keeps consistency with past versions of SL without adding any burden to the system.

OPENING boxes is a necessity in SL. This will bring about a gradual-yet-awesomelywelcome paradigm shift. The current rating will decay, and decay in time, so it logically can be put into the backburner.

The pie's got a good free slice! Yumm!
_____________________
AnneDroid Lily
Scary robot girl. Rarr.
Join date: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 41
09-01-2005 20:26
From: Oz Spade
Move "Rate" to "More", and replace "Rate" with "Open" and put back "Create". "Rate" you rarely need in a quick pinch, but "Create" you do.

PLEASE put back Create and move Open somewhere else.


The purpose of second life is giving form to creativity. I unconditionally agree that it should be given priority over ratings. The utility of ratings is going to disappear within 6 weeks, acording to Philip's post. Please consider implementing this.

That's my opinion anyway (which may count for less these days).
Nathan Stewart
Registered User
Join date: 2 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,039
09-01-2005 20:33
Personally as i dont think many people will be rating after the stripend bonuses are removed, would be simpler to move the ratings to the more menu, move open down to the rate spot and move create back to where open is, either that or you gonna have to get used to another shortcut Ctrl-4
_____________________
Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
09-01-2005 20:37
Yupyup, ratings gets the slow fade away, piece by piece it is stripped away like an old junk car and transformed into the future ChittyChittyBangBang of our dreams. So I hope.

Also check out the Build notecard kiosks in the sandboxes now, that's a step in the right direction for helping Residents to get started. I hope everyone gives it a whirl, you don't have to be a content creator (I'm certainly not) but you do have to be interested in exploring new things.

I'm always encouraged by someone who felt they weren't all that artistic but comes up with something very cool and fitting of their personality.

"Open" is the funny lateralstream of this because, I just hope the old, convoluted cycle of viciously taking items outta a box, one by one, will go away. And it looks promising. (Plays a big role in organizing creations of yours, or of others.) It really does.
_____________________
Oz Spade
ReadsNoPostLongerThanHand
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,708
09-02-2005 10:30
Definitly.

You can't multi-drag stuff out of Open?

I really like the idea of Open, the ease of use to get stuff out of prims really helps.

Build I won't be using much at all, but I imagine it'll be helpfull for others. :)
_____________________
"Don't anticipate outcome," the man said. "Await the unfolding of events. Remain in the moment." - Konrad
HeatherDawn Cohen
Who Me?!?!
Join date: 9 Aug 2004
Posts: 397
09-02-2005 10:40
From: Oz Spade
...How do I create new objects? I have to go into Edit instead of simply clicking Create....


You said you like keyboard short cuts eh? How does Ctrl+4 work for ya?? ;) I don't think I've ever used the create option in the pie menu. It's always been Ctrl+4 for me.
Oz Spade
ReadsNoPostLongerThanHand
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,708
09-02-2005 11:08
From: HeatherDawn Cohen
You said you like keyboard short cuts eh? How does Ctrl+4 work for ya?? ;) I don't think I've ever used the create option in the pie menu. It's always been Ctrl+4 for me.


I didn't know you could do such a thing!

But how does Ctrl+4 work for placement? Often times I use Create on a specific place close to where I want to edit the prim. Like on another object etc.

Edit to add: Ah I see Nathan mentioned it, but I didn't understand what he meant exactly. The problem is that not many people know of Ctrl+4 and not everyone likes to use keyboard shortcuts (I imagine most newbies especialy).
_____________________
"Don't anticipate outcome," the man said. "Await the unfolding of events. Remain in the moment." - Konrad
Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
09-02-2005 12:45
From: Oz Spade

You can't multi-drag stuff out of Open?


I can! It's UNBELIEVABLY handy to finally have this, at last I can grab all my outfits and whatnot. I wish there was an extra button in Open tho to "Copy All Items To Folder In Inventory", permissions granted, 'course.

Sometimes there are unreliable syncs though, I filed a bug report (and check the thread you started for a lil' more 'bout it).
_____________________
CrystalShard Foo
1+1=10
Join date: 6 Feb 2004
Posts: 682
09-02-2005 13:51
I'm not much of a shortcut person.. having problems remembering shortcuts, the Pie menu is pretty much the most intuitive menu in SL. Its just sad to see Create going away.
Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
09-02-2005 13:52
From: CrystalShard Foo
Its just sad to see Create going away.


SCRIPT-KITTY, DON'T GIVE UP HOPE YET.
_____________________
Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
09-02-2005 13:58
Yeah I'm no lovin' this either.
_____________________
Oz Spade
ReadsNoPostLongerThanHand
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,708
09-03-2005 16:55
Also sometimes a Pie menu is much faster. I can right click and click again faster than Ctrl+4, especialy if I'm already building which makes much use of the mouse.

And Torley, yeah I tested that last night too, It's really handy. :D I agree more options in Open would be nice. It looks a little bare right now. Maybe like "Copy To New Folder" and/or "Copy To Inventory" (which puts them in folders of what type they are). If you can do so.
_____________________
"Don't anticipate outcome," the man said. "Await the unfolding of events. Remain in the moment." - Konrad
Nathan Stewart
Registered User
Join date: 2 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,039
09-08-2005 14:43
And after all the feedback in the third preview it looks like all our ideas have been listened too, the rate object button has been moved into the more section, the open button has been moved down to where rate was, and create has been put back where it originally was.
_____________________
Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
09-08-2005 14:54
From: Nathan Stewart
And after all the feedback in the third preview it looks like all our ideas have been listened too, the rate object button has been moved into the more section, the open button has been moved down to where rate was, and create has been put back where it originally was.


O that's really sweet to hear, I'm gonna check it out. :)
_____________________
Chris Linden
Program Manager
Join date: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 149
09-09-2005 09:50
From: Nathan Stewart
And after all the feedback in the third preview it looks like all our ideas have been listened too, the rate object button has been moved into the more section, the open button has been moved down to where rate was, and create has been put back where it originally was.


We listen! Keep the feedback coming!
Oz Spade
ReadsNoPostLongerThanHand
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,708
09-09-2005 18:14
Yaaayyy! Thank you Lindens! :D

Mucho appreciation.
_____________________
"Don't anticipate outcome," the man said. "Await the unfolding of events. Remain in the moment." - Konrad
Blueman Steele
Registered User
Join date: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,038
Thank you!
09-09-2005 18:18
From: Chris Linden
We listen! Keep the feedback coming!


*pats Chris on back