Officer Recall in Ravenglass Rentals

A griefer triggered an "officer recall" this morning on Prokofy Neva.

The recall vote was not legitimate because it was not started by any actual tenant or landowner officer in the group. It was likely not done by any tenant with a grievance but likely a non-tenant merely using this as a form of an attack in retaliation for disputes on the forums.

This was merely a person with a grudge who chose to attack the group and temporarily freeze membership; there are workarounds to avoid this situation and we have them in place.

I wasn't online so I couldn't see who did it. If anyone knows who started the recall vote, please file an abuse report in the game to the Lindens.

The griefing was derailed and I rejoined the group and put back the tier coverage.

In the event this type of recall ever happens, just vote "no" or "abstain" and it will be taken care of as quickly as possible.

I am keeping the group on open invitation and open enrollment for the convenience of tenants and their roomies and partners, and I wish to adhere to my ideal of keeping an open land group for tenants to cooperate in residential and commercial sims.

I haven't been on today so I may have missed the fun. I usually abstain from all recalls anyway.

perhaps this was simply this person's method of stating their unhappiness. it really doesnt constitute griefing, as it is a function supplied by the game software, so i dunno what good abuse reporting will do.

its sort of like neg rating people in all three categories for forum disputes. one person may see it as griefing, and another may point out that it's not, simply because the software allows it. its also worth noting that both the ratings and officer recall functions systems are in place to deal with what one may view as poor behavior.

Nope, it is definately griefing. The asswipe that did it to grief Prok, also ended up griefing the whole group. And, no I am NOT a member of the group.

No, it's a griefer who is attacking more than 100 people who are uninvolved completely in forum disputes as a way to attempt to intimidate me for my expression of disliked opinions on the forums, and a way of attempting to force me out of business and out of the game. But I'm not budging. I'm going to keep the group going and keep it open.

Triple negrating is indeed warranted on people who have slandered, libeled, and egregiously personally attacked me, sure. The game gives you no other recourse to handle such matters.

An officer recall exposes a group officer who has paid money for land and pays money for the tier to the loss of his land. This can happen either because the Lindes could seize it for being under-tiered. Or because the rogue member and treacherous officers put into place by that rogue officer-recalling member (through engineered votes) then could seize that land they didn't pay for, and either sell it or gain from it themselves. If you think this isn't possible, look around the game a little more.

That's a far, far cry from a negrate, a symbolic act which puts a little neg sign by a person who usually has an overwhelming greater number of positives.

A negrate is an expression of opinion about bad behaviour and is warranted. In a land group, the recall of an officer who has paid the upfront purchase price of land, and is paying the tier on the land, is not only a manifestation of the anti-business and anti-land baron group in this game, it's a criminal act akin to theft and vandalism.

It mainly succeeds in terrorizing all the tenants, making some of them leave, or making some of them unable to join. While there are workarounds to it, people are annoyed by being asked to vote in something they didn't chose, then being spammed by messages, and feeling insecure in their rental, not understanding what is happening.

It's a blow to a person's hard work and business and the properties and payments of all those involved.

It's a good thing the Lindens are removing this function in the next patch.

People who use this kind of method to attack a person for their views are cowards.

No, it's a griefer who is attacking more than 100 people who are uninvolved completely in forum disputes as a way to attempt to intimidate me for my expression of disliked opinions on the forums, and a way of attempting to force me out of business and out of the game. But I'm not budging. I'm going to keep the group going and keep it open.

Triple negrating is indeed warranted on people who have slandered, libeled, and egregiously personally attacked me, sure. The game gives you no other recourse to handle such matters.

An officer recall exposes a group officer who has paid money for land and pays money for the tier to the loss of his land. This can happen either because the Lindens could seize it for being under-tiered. Or because the rogue member and treacherous officers put into place by that rogue officer-recalling member (through engineered votes) then could seize that land they didn't pay for, and either sell it or gain from it themselves. If you think this isn't possible, look around the game a little more.

That's a far, far cry from a negrate, a symbolic act which puts a little neg sign by a person who usually has an overwhelming greater number of positives.

A negrate is an expression of opinion about bad behaviour and is warranted. In a land group, the recall of an officer who has paid the upfront purchase price of land, and is paying the tier on the land, is not only a manifestation of the anti-business and anti-land baron group in this game, it's a criminal act akin to theft and vandalism.

It mainly succeeds in terrorizing all the tenants, making some of them leave, or making some of them unable to join. While there are workarounds to it, people are annoyed by being asked to vote in something they didn't chose, then being spammed by messages, and feeling insecure in their rental, not understanding what is happening.

It's a blow to a person's hard work and business and the properties and payments of all those involved.

It's a good thing the Lindens are removing this function in the next patch.

People who use this kind of method to attack a person for their views are cowards.

Because clearly someone who attacks you is a bad builder and has an AV with a bad appearance? No, triple neg-rating is blatant abuse of a system, however being subjective, it's unreportable.

No other recourses? Report abuse.

i don't believe that disliking a person's abundance of contresversial opinions or offensive remarks gives anyone that right to go in world and grief them in a manner beyond negative ratings. attempting to cause a person who clearly has enough problems to deal with thousands of dollars worth of damages is reprehensible.

prokofy, i suggest you file an abuse report and ask LL to identify the cuplrit or at the very least to handle this abusive player.

i'm glad to see LL is fixing this problem in the next patch.

btw, hiro, seriously do you think the ratings are really about appearance and building skills? OMG LOLz!

I did AR it but I don't see that even technically, it is a violation of the TOS, because I don't think the Lindens ever thought about this very much as a griefing problem. But they do recognize it as an issue increasingly as more and more people use groups for projects or malls or rentals and they appear to "get it" and have said they intend to remove this feature from the next patch, and make the founder the one to remove officers. This gets rid of the problem some people had of being unable to get rid of absentee or dead officers and accommodated the tiny percentage of people who said the tool could be used to remove tyrants. It's more often used by tyrants than a help to get rid of them.

I don't think the Lindens even have the possibility to find out who did it, but a number of us have filed the AR anyway.

I continue to believe that a different culture of neg and pos rates could be created that would yet put meaning in this system.

A triple posrates is all too often given for no reason at all, when a person hasn't built a thing, just because someone wants to help someone out with getting a bigger stipend from the Lindes. So the answer to that is just to change the categories, perhaps, or make it possible to award X number of points each time, so that you could add 3 possibly or take away 3 from one category.

The point is, when some grievious action is not a violation of the TOS, when nothing is done about it anywhere, when the Lindens throw up their hands, you have only one legal recourse, which is the negrate. So I think a triple negrate to someone who has slandered you on the forums with false information is in order.

Personal feelings for Prok and my opinions on neg rates aside; I think this is a serious and valid issue.

An entire group of people should not be able to be held in limbo using this method due to someone having an issue with an officer in that group.

I think at the *very* least, groups should be able to make it so that only officers can recall other officers. Better yet, add several options and let the group creator set who can and cannot issue recalls.

No matter what, this issue needs to be fixed. It just leaves groups too open for abuse.

Bingo, on both counts.

Today, the founder of the LITTLE CRITTERS group (one of the largest non-club groups on SL) was hit with a recall. The FOUNDER. There is no excuse for such a function continuing to exist on Second Life. I can understand how LL might have instituted it at the start, thinking it would give groups a means of protecting themselves against bad officers.

But as soon as Linden Labs found out this was consistently being used as a major griefing tool, it should have been stopped, removed from the system, re-thought and re-designed (if even brought back in at all). So why does it remain?

Only ones who should be able to initiate a recall is an OFFICER of the group. The name of that officer should be stated, and if the recall fails, that officer should lose officer position. If people don't like the group, they can leave it and start another.

A recall should NEVER be called against a founder. Can't do so in real life. If you don't like the way a boss runs his company, you can't fire him! What a ludicrous concept.

But, group management has been sorely lacking in several areas. Why, at this time officers don't even have a method to send announcements to all group members! Talk about an obviously needed, missing function!

Sure am glad we have online videos though! whoo boy. ;D

(bet LL will be razzed about that for a long, long time yet. LOL)

This is indeed a General problem and I Wish you Well.

And don't forget - LL listens to us and they care!

Right!