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Jitar Bunin
Club 69 Radio
Join date: 10 Nov 2005
Posts: 93
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04-20-2006 15:04
From: Kelly Linden It sounds like you may have lost your connection to the server, or that you have extremely high packet loss.
THERE WAS/IS NOTHING WRONG WITH MY COMPUTER.
THERE WAS 0% PACKET LOSS*** savagely shreds a linden teddy bear *** I was definatly connected, my swearing at the prim was being echo'd from the server. I could talk, and I could move, get IM's... everything else EXCEPT get changes to prims to save. It was doing it on the CLIENT... Clicking the scroller to increase/decrease the size of the prim would cause it to change on my end but it would snap back to it's original size about 1/2 a second later.... even entering the number directly had the same effect. And no, I own the prim. I made it like 10 mins before all this happened. Packet loss was 0%, in fact, packet loss has been 0% in the Carmine sim ever since it was restarted yesterday. Believe me, I'm watching packet loss carefully these days. Yes, I tried logging out, and back in. (and I have the -purge option in my shortcut to clear the cache every time.) From: Kelly Linden If this doesn't help you can also try emailing [email]support@lindenlab.com[/email]. I've been through this several times before already... All they are going to try to convince me that it's my graphics card/renderer causing the problem. My blood pressure will go through the roof again, I will end up wasting more and more of my energy going in circles... in the end they will tell me that If I dont shut up they will suspend my account and/or that they arent allowed to give me technical support because My Graphics card isnt supported (whereupon they will send me a link to the page showing the minimum stats .. which specifically names the gForce-2 card, which I have, as being the minimum supported card.) ...... The last time I went though this only convinced me to start selling my land in preperation to cancel my premium account. (Yes Torley, sorry to report that the park behind my house is no more... another SL public space gone forever.) The fact that other people also see the friggin prims snapping back back tells me it ISNT my graphics card, or my connection. It's flat that some SL server cant save the change. There is no other explination that I can see. If it were just on the client side, then logging out, clearing the cache, and logging back in should have caused the prim to appear in its new edited form if the server had saved the changes. If Linden Labs refuses to even acknowledge the problems, how can we trust our hard work to the servers that we think will NEVER be fixed? All that this tells us is that being a premium account holder and paying for this is a mistake... I keep hesitating in canceling my account, because I want to believe that it will be fixed, that SL will be a great thing... but I'm having trouble in that belief after reading the non-reply I keep getting.... A number of people over the past 24 hours have reported, HERE, in this forum, lost objects and other asset server related problems. (And I am one of them.) ... yet we see nothing in the announcements or here or anywhere telling us that it's being worked on... There isnt even an acknowledgement that there is a problem STILL going on. Supposedly this problem was already fixed, several times over the last week.... ** throws linden-bear stuffing all over the room *** |
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Kelly Linden
Linden Developer
Join date: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 896
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04-20-2006 20:26
First, I'm not in QA. I have not seen other reports, in this forum or otherwise, of people experiencing what you are describing. That doesn't mean we aren't getting them, just that I havn't seen them.
What you are describing is not an asset system problem. That doesn't mean it isn't a problem! However correctly identifying where the problem actually is goes a LONG way towards finding and fixing it. The asset system stores static, 'saved' data. Textures, the items in your inventory, script source, landmarks - these all are assets. The actual objects that you see in world, while potentially created from an asset or assets if dragged from inventory, are not currently being stored on the asset server. Any object that you are actually editing is not currently on the 'asset server' - it is being simulated by the simulator.
Now, why did I jump to the packet loss or disconnect conclusion? First, you didn't mention it in your first post, and no I can't read minds, sorry. I was not aware that you were watching your packet loss already. The behavior you describe - objects jumping back to previous settings - is something that is much more likely to happen with high packet loss, and potentially high latency.
What happens, on the technical side, is this. The simulator is always keeping an internal representation of the object you are editing. Whenever there is a change to the object the simulator must send that update data to everyone looking at the object - an 'object update'.
It is possible, although it may be a bug if this is happening, that while your update is being sent up something - a script update, another person editing, or something weird - could cause an object update to be sent to your viewer. When you make a change your client sends that data to the simulator as 1 or more packets of data. My guess, with what data you have given, is that an update from the simulator due to a change in the object, or some other bug, is overriding the changes you are in the progress of making.
If the packet with your update gets dropped on its way to the server it has to be resent, which means it won't get to the simulator right away obviously. Similarly if you have very high latency the packet won't get to the simulator right away. Both of these increase that time where maybe something, or maybe for no reason at all (big bug) the simulator sends another update to your viewer which is overriding your changes. This is why I asked about packet loss and connection to the server. It is a logical and reasonable line of questions.
Now, the behavior you are seeing is probably a bug, but unless we can reproduce it or otherwise figure out the exact order that is causing your problem, it is extremely hard to fix.
Here is some more debuging you can do:
Enable the Debug menu if you have not.
Near the bottom is 'Show Object Updates'
Enabling this will show red, blue and green 'flags' on any objects that your viewer recieves an update for. Red flags are full updates - all the parameters of an object are being sent to your viewer and updating the object. Blue ones are partial updates, only position, rotation and similar properties are being sent, these are smaller and less likely to override your changes. Green ones are for objects that are being deleted.
With this on watch your object while you aren't editing it.
Also watch it while editing it.
If there are flags while you aren't editing it, then something else is going on. Maybe a rapidly updating script is inside of the object, or something else weird is happening. I would definitely like a copy of the object in this case.
Your logs may also be helpful. They are most helpful if you talk to yourself while doing the tests. Log into Second Life. Say something like 'I am going to change the size on my object' then change the size, then say 'it just reverted back' when it reverts. Doing this will mark approximate places in the log file which will make it easier to see if there is any useful information there. Your log file, if you are on windows, should be in C:\Documents and Settings\<username>\Application Settings\SecondLife\logs. If you make as short a log as possible - log in, do the tests, log out - and send it to me at [email]kelly@lindenlab.com[/email] I can take a look.
Lastly, I know you said you aren't getting packet loss. However it really helps for our record to get solid data of that, that way any other person who looks at this issue and thinks 'packet loss!' can see for sure that avenue has already been explored. If you can cut and paste the line from the About Second Life window that shows your total number of packets and total packets lost for your session after experiencing this, that helps. Also screenshots with the ctrl-shift-1 window open, particuarly with the Advanced->Network section open and visible (because it shows what type of data you are receiving), are useful. Having the Simulator portion visible would be nice as well.
 Hopefully the bug can be tracked down and fixed.
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- Kelly Linden
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