Interesting observation

I've noticed that almost none of the posts I found concerning the recent (June 28th) update, at least in regards to the payment info status in profile, have recieved a satisfactory, and detailed, response. I know you people at Linden Labs are trying, but it's very possible to make things worse, very quickly. For example, if I may quote it, I found this post from http://secondlife.blogs.com/change/2006/06/update_open_reg.html#more

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I am a new member, I did not provide my payment information because I see no need to. It doesn't get me anything new. Now however people take one look at my profile and ban me from their land just because they will assume that because i did not provide my payment info that I must be either a child or a griefer. How is this fair? I am here with the best of intentions, I may provide payment info if I need to buy $L's or if I find that there is actually a good reason to become a premium member.

Why even bother with the "provided payment information" stuff, why not just identify the fields as Premium, paid basic, free basic? That is how people read it anyway.

I went to a popular club today and accidentally bumped into someone because of the lag and apparently someone reported the bump "yes I said sorry" to the club owner and I was immediately banned from the club. I IM'd the owner to find out why and they said because I griefed a guest and because they thought I was a griefing alt. because of my "no payment info" label in my profile.

This is a VERY bad message to new members and I'm sure you'll find an increase in these kinds of behaviors because of these labels. Personally I think my status in SL is nobody's business but mine and LL's. I resent having that info made public and will give LL a week to remove that info from my profile then I will leave SL for good. I do not need to deal with discrimination in SL.

BAD MOVE LL!!!
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Cresten Pixie.

Sorry for that big block of text, but I can't remember how to do the quote box thing. Anyway, the reason I bring it up is because there is in fact discrimination already happening, not more than a few days after the update. And people have even said outright that when they have the power to do so, they will completely deny access to *anyone* that hasn't at least put info on file, and I'm sure there are others that will say 'paying customers only'. People have to deal with being second class citizens in their real lives. They most certainly don't need to deal with it on here. So could we possibly remove, or at least hide this information?

Also, in order to not just be some griping lurker, here are a few suggestions.

An _INVISIBLE_ counter on each player, that tallies up the number of places or the number of times they have been banned from. NO LSL SCRIPTS TO READ OR INTERACT WITH THIS VARIABLE EITHER! The purpose would be that at certain points, such as after it hits 10, temporarily lock that computer, not that account, but the computer, out for 24 hours. Just as a warning. That way if it is a multi-user system, and only one is griefing, the other users will know and talk to them about it, or stop letting them play. At 15, 48 hours, and 20. A week. Also as an idea, mention the player name that got that computer locked out. And at a point at like 25-30, lock the computer out for a month. Then at a much higher level, ban it completely until the player has submitted a formal request to be unbanned, as well as a small fee to reactivate their account. Nothing much, maybe 2-3 US dollars. That way they *have* to provide some form of payment information.

Also, for landowners, allow residents to vote-ban people from land, in case the owner isn't home. The owner could set up that only certain people could voteban, (caretakers or some such) and the number of votes required, possibly could stay in the memory for a period of time, though it would have to have some limits to keep it from bogging down the server. Votebans would count towards the counter mentioned above.

That should at least help with griefers, without uniformally locking out the productive citizens at the same time. Unfortunately however, I don't have any good ideas for keeping underaged players from playing in the adult grid. Heck, there are probably a few of them who are playing with parental consent, and CC#. There's no way to stop it, though I think maybe the downloader should be hosted on a different branch of the website, marked adult so things like webnanny or whatever else could block it. That way at least those with responsible parents would be taken care of.

Now, to sit back and see if this gets responded to, deleted, or ignored :/

PS. I appreciate the effort, just not what it was put in to.

Hey Rikku--thanx for your post! First one on the SL Forums, I see too--and you're new, so a warm welcome to Second Life.

Also, I'm glad you've already been reading Robin's blog. More info will be posted there as developments continue; please keep checking back.

Something which can never be obvious enough in a situation like this is: we at LL want to be as fair as possible and look at an issue from all viewpoints, including unpopular ones which may bite us now but may bless us later. If you look back through our history, there's already been quite a number of those which caused significant concern when they arose, but are no big deal now. For example, an age where we didn't have direct, point-to-point teleportation, but you were confined to teleporting to certain spots on the map called Telehubs. And also, what about the dawning of the Teen Grid itself too? Caused much of a stir in late '04! Ah, that's not to dismiss the importance of problems; rather, it's to show how we keep going and we are going to continue to pay attention to Residents and do our best as is humanly possible.

Each Resident makes their choices. We hope to communicate so they'll be informed choices. While we can't control someone's prejudices, it's sad such an event as Cresten's happened. I started Second Life as a Basic account member, back when Basics cost US$9.95 a pop. And even then, some people regarded Basics as scrawny freeloaders. Rather than cower in fear, it's important to clarify and dispel misinformation out there: if someone judges you, it may say more about their character than yours.

BTW, quotes are done like this:without spaces in between the square brackets.

I see many locations that are friendly to Residents of all statuses. The grid keeps getting bigger. You may not be liked at one locale, but very well appreciated at 100 others.

I wasn't a landowner. I wasn't even a content creator. I was freakin' leftfield, a nomad explorer, and didn't belong to any above category. I, by all means and accounts, should have been at the bottom of the garbage pile. But why not? Because I realize any reliance on a little snippet of text blinds out the big picture of what else can be done. Make a name for yourself here, start a blog and get others energized, lead them on your vision--I came to live the Second Life dream despite my setbacks, and so I have.

And to the contrary, to be explicit about this: I have seen many good stories of an established Resident coming across a new Resi sans payment info on file, and all too happy to help them build confidence and enjoy being here. Do personal experiences vary greatly? Yes they do. Can you make the system work for you? Yes you can!

You gotta believe in yourself first. Think positively, act actionably!

If you've got a clear goal, a lucid vision that you know that should be pressed on us, set it up in the Feature Voting Tool. Garner community support, and we'll listen--and act.

In addition, addressing LL's responsibility in the matter--thank you for your suggestions. We've got more anti-griefing measures on the way, like being able to restrict llPushObject on a per-parcel basis. Which means, you're at home, someone keeps trying to shoot you--even if you're standing, it does nothing. A significant and long-requested improvement. More news on this to come...

You already know blacklist ban heights have been raised to 768 m. They were insufficiently stunted for the longest time--this has finally been solved.

Related on a tangent, networked ban lists? Yes, in development. Top dog Travis Lambert and queen of purple Mera Pixel are working on such a thing. This will be Resident-run, but I'm eager to assist them in coordinating their efforts with our development schedule. Speak to them, learn from their experiences. They are fantastic--The Shelter @ Isabel (44, 244, 79) is an exceptional place which welcomes new Residents!

Vote-banning is too rife with potential abuses, alas. I've seen such problems before outside of SL, especially when a gang of griefers arrives and bans the "right" folks! And if you go the "privileged access route" way, that only complicates things messily. What we've got instead is a better Groups system--now available in Preview--which empowers you to delegate land ban powers to trusted loved ones and friends. Keeping it simple and clean.

Also in the midst of all of this, more adults on Main Grid should consider the flipside: how Teens feel about creepy adults going to TG! We've got ideas, and are working on implementing them in a way that gives the Resident choice and power to be personally satisfied, but doesn't shift responsibility--nor blame--to them. Because that's a zero sum game noone wants to play.

Unto each one of us living a Second Life, our choices shape the future of what Second Life becomes as a platform, and manifestation of what we image in our heads that we can share with others. Despite the adversity, the struggles, and the challenges, we keep moving. Affect others passionately; they too will believe, and so will we. And hopefully the future will be a better place to live... be it a Second, or a First Life.