Unskilled work in SL / A (farfetched) proposal

I have pondered the camping chair problem a bit. I prefer to buy money online, but I see that for many, especially new "players" or people not having the skills/time/interest/SW to become content providers, the chairs provided a "legitimate" way to earn "game" money.

Some have proposed various grind-like activities like "mining for prims" or somesuch... but this does not add value, and would produce inflation (the L$ gained by this useless activities would have to be "minted" devaluing the Linden $).

My proposal (admittedly farfetched, but LL should be in avour of experimenting too, I think) is the following:

Implement a grid-computing client tied to the current SL client. This way, instead of zombified people in camping chairs, the various online PCs would help crunch numbers like SETI@Home or the folding proteins project.

Linden would resell computing cycles to customers, and convert a percentage of this to L$ for people who "rented out" their clients for this.

I admit that apart from technical problems, the grid computing "hype" is not so hot, and I can see this either never fully materialize (in terms of customers interested in this service) and/or having severe fluctuatios in terms of request... say that by the end of fiscal year everybody wants more cycles, for example... and then you have zero customers in summer... Linden should try to find a way to absorb these phenomena, too.

I admit it's SF... but perhaps the discussion would produce something feasible. The main idea is that at the moment campers provide electrical power and computing cycles for not doing anything useful to anyone (well... Dwell, at the moment, but this is fairly dubious).

Is there any other way to leverage the same assets without requiring people to learn producing more clothes, poses and so on?

I understand what you are saying...

I guess my problem with SL is that I don't want to feel like I have to do anything significant here. RL has enough expectations of my time and of me. I come here to be entertained...simple as that. That being said, I don't expect that everyone should feel as I do but I think there is room for all of us here without expecting us to have a real purpose for being here. I am not a computer savy person who has the intellectual knowledge to create computer scripts, images etc. So what is here for us who are not so inclined? If I am chatting in a club...am I considered useless because I am not contributing to the world of SL? Why does every member have to be a contributor?

As in RL in SL there needs to be a way for us to aquire Linden $'s without buying them. Contest, games etc...are entertaining and can provide some with pocket money to buy all the stuff the "designers" create. A job is fine too, but there are hardly enough of those to go around and not all of us have the RL time to make job commitments on SL.

I personally will not spend my own money to buy things here. So, I don't buy things unless I have L$'s. If I were a property owner then I could see spending money on things to add to my property...but I am not and many are not property owners.

My point is that some of us just simply want to enjoy ourselves here. It's a nice place to visit when you want to unwind from RL. If it gets too complicated then my reason for being here will end.

Morning Sara,

First off, /agree. I happen to have come here as an Uru-fugee (Info on that defunct game may be accessed from the 'kind healer' link in my sig). People have asked me what exactly I've done the last year and a half in SL. Not a content creator in the traditional sense, and not quite a VC either. 'Sponsor' perhaps? *shrug* But Uru's multiplayer never had money either - it was 100% social. So perhaps I have a reference to work with.



I've got a few ideas off the top of my head [warning, plug for a project I like ] - Numbakulla's Pot Healers Adventure for starters (sim dedicated to an exploration game, with lots of freebie items scattered about, and also makes a nice place to relax and talk together too - just stick to PG rules please ). There are other islands such as this, including some of the oldest ones.

This can be one of the most enjoyable - and fustrating - things about SL at times, trying to find things like this. You will *not* find some of the best gems through the Find menu, because some folk just aren't interested in placing their area in Find or Classifieds or some other such; My rented land for example.



I really don't think there's any major need for L$ in SL to enjoy it, though I still have a Premium account for the L$ even though I rent - it goes toward a Money Tree. Excluding L$ pumped through me for land-related expenses, I think I've only 'paid' not much more than L$6000 in 18 months on myself (that includes mostly a couple 'luxury' items - weapons or other security I've not used - and a gift or two). Most of my outfit is done entirely with the in-world tools and access to either free or very inexpensive textures, or freebies. My shirt was added much later, as I made my own texture for the sake of trying (and ended up my last attempt so far - though I'm still thinking about it).



Again, I agree wholeheartedly. The most important thing is to enjoy yourself. Spending L$ is entirely a luxury, if you look around enough.

No offence meant - but - do you actually understand what I was trying to say? Perhaps it's just that I didn't frame the message properly (English is not my native language anyway).

I am asking for input about how to provide legitimate value for camping-like activities from players. You seem to just repeat that people need in-game money without having to be contente creators. Well - if this is what you are saying - I agree. In fact that's why I am proposing.

Just like now people camps their avatars and go away to do stuff in RL I'd like to have a "WORKING" state for the avatar, something that removes it from interaction with other players but which produces real value by using computing resources from the client, instead of just milking the camping chairs.

This will not require specific skills or detract from the in-game time you'll decide to have.

This will still allow people to "play" to their heart's content when online (contrast this with money trees which require in-game player activity to earn money, or other grind-like jobs), will not hurt content creators (even help them, probably, more money in game to buy stuff) and require people to only use their PC and SL software... requisites so low that they are available, de-facto, to anyone wishing to play SL itself.

This makes about as much sense as eBay letting people buy random crap just because they installed SETI@home.
I wasn't raised to believe that "unskilled" (as in boring, mechanical, repetitive) labor was an acceptable lifestyle. I was raised to believe that it would eventually all be done by robots and stuff like that, so that people could spend their time on more human pursuits, such as art, science, or heck, even religion.
Of course back then they told us it would be like that on the year 2000

So even if this would be both technically and economically feasible you would object to this on ethical terms?

Note that content providers would still gain more than people preferring this "job". So your philosophy (which I don't necessarily disagree with) would still hold.

You highlighted the wrong part of my post. The keyword here is eBay.
SL is fundamentally a 3D Agora - a place where you come to buy and sell goods or services, but also a place where you come to socialize and debate.
If you cannot or will not provide your own set of goods and services, then buy them, or just be content to hang out and see the sights.

This is more clear now, thanks. And sorry for misunderstanding your point.

I agree with your stance (and therefore buy L$ online - I lack the talent/time/willpower to produce) but I also see a lot of people frustrated by the lack of low skill jobs in here. And I wonder if they couldn't possibly blossom in valuable citizens if they had an easier way in for the first few months of life in SL.

Perhaps SL is "better" because the system tends to weed out people not dedicated enough. But I am not sure this is true. Economics is not my field, but I see the current system as unbalanced: RL has still entry level jobs (like working at McDonalds while you attend University for example). I'd like something similar for SL, a low-intensity low-pay "job" which still gives out a bit of disposable income without producing inflation.

That's a very good idea.

Paying people for computer cycle is a hassle because you have to send them money (with all the complexity it implies). SL already has the "sending money" part implemented, through the AV's cash.

So your idea makes sense. The question is wether it's profitable on LL's side, implementing it and paying staff to find clients, etc... (I have no idea how the distributed computing market is)
Cood idea anyway.

It's not exactly "unskilled" but you could always write an article for the history wiki
http://history.secondserver.net

Here's how it goes:

1) Tell me what you are going to do, and that you are applying for the reward.
2) Write an article, or improve an existing one, and tell me when you're done.
3) I will gather an independent panel of judges who will review your article.
4) The judges give it a score from 1-100% based on a few criteria.
5) I pay you ten times the average of your scores. (L$10-1000)

Repeat until you're rich or I am broke.
There's also "jobs" as event host and even store clerk types of things.

Perhaps I'm too dense, but you seem to disagree with my idea not because you find it unfeasible (that I'd agree with, probably), but for some other reason I'm unable to fathom.

You keep proposing alternatives (which may well be valid and useful), or just vetoing it but you seem to be skirting the main issue.

"Assuming that LL can find a valuable use for this kind of distributed processing, would you agree part of this revenue could be fed back into the system through direct player payment"?

Note also that while e-bay has no dedicated, distributed client, SL already has one, and it's an intrinsic part of the "game"/service they sell.

I'm not VEHEMENTLY against your idea. Sure, they could do that. But it's extra work they need to do, it's not fundamentally along the lines of LL's vision and it doesn't add to the SL experience.
It just seems a little silly. Sorry

Grid computing projects like Seti@home are all volunteer. If LL were going to reward people for volunteering their idle computer time to such projects they'd still be minting new money to compensate the participants and there'd be no money in it for LL. The only way would be if they developed their own grid computing tech and sold time to third parties, which I don't think is very likely. Neat idea but it doesn't really solve the problem you're trying to address.

That's what I wanted to know. Thanks for the feedback (seriously).

That's what I was proposing, in fact (see the point about fluctuation of demand in my OP).
The idea is to sell resources (computer cycles) to third parties, apologies if it was not clear enough.

Can anyone think of anything that could be offloaded to client PCs to produce actual value? I don't think that LL could offload their own simulation workload, but this could be just because I don't know much about the actual architecture.

As an example, I know that Dwell seems doomed, but perhaps they could make Dwell calculation a partitioned and grid-computable task and offload this to client PCs. This would be possibly simpler to implement than generic grid-style computation, and should be less prone to supply/demand imbalances.

Any other statistics that could be post-processed in this way?

This seems like a road to nowhere, theres already lots of "free" money, why would you want a boring job?

Evening Pamar.

I'm reasonably certain that what you're trying to suggest will not be accepted with LL. From a technical standpoint, security of the data between the SL grid and an outside source would have to be *much* better than it is today to even think about it. Though the data links with the clients are reasonably secure (eh), its the client, and therefore has a somewhat restricted view of the 'world.'

Since we're talking about a semi-proprietary format (the SL application suite), they'd really need to crank security up a notch before considering that. As much as I would like that in general, they're still very busy just keeping up with scaling the application properly.

As to ways for making money, I point you to my original post in this thread. If you're really just going to be a socialite (which is very possible), there is no major need for L$ honestly. Yes you'll need to work at it a bit more in searching, but that can be done in a fun way too - for example, get a bunch of friends together, create a group, and use group chat while you all look for new and interesting things in different places. Using voice chat via Skype or TeamSpeak works too. Trust me, stuff like that is an adventure in itself, and can be fun, and all for little to no L$.

If this does not dissuade you from needing to find sources of 'making money' in SL, think about this: It took me eight *months* before I had a true feel for what I wanted to do with SL. And a couple more before I could find a focus or two for that calling.

So, again, sit back and enjoy SL for now. You'll find your way.

Sorry Parnar....

instead of responding to your post I really was just posting my general opinion about the whole subject...not necessarily about your particular post. I should not have referenced or quoted you.

In any event...some may not agree, but I think your ideas are worth exploring.

I understand you concerns about security and may sahre them, but you are misrepresenting my own personal take on this.

I wasn't looking for a way to make in-game money for myself... I have no qualms whatsoever in buying them with RL $ when I feel like it. My idea was just speculative, to address the same needs that Camping Chairs (which I personally don't use) are currently catering for.

There does need to be ways for people to earn Linden dollars besides selling stuff; that way I'd have less competition. <JOKE!>

But people like the camping chairs because they can log on and leave the room and do real life stuff like sleeping. This probably adds to their enjoyment of the game, but does not do much for the world at large.

I have my own version of a money tree set up (Fairy Gold), but so far only one player has taken advatage of it because you actually have to take the time to figure out where the gold is, and you actually have to be in game to pick it up when it appears.

I think what we need is more events that let people earn a little cash fast (kind of like my old roach stomping event, which I no longer have enough bare ground to run).

Anyhow, I'm rambling now, so I'll hush.