Second Life Forums Archive - It's been about a week now.

The Spork

Nobody

Join date: 8 Feb 2006

Posts: 100

04-23-2006 18:07

And this is what I've seen so far...

VGI Chamonix pulled up a couple pads and chairs. Traffic there INCREASED. In fact as I look through the casino right now I see 5 or 6 people just standing and waiting for a pad. Over the last week I've had trouble getting in to the sim. VGI seems completely unaffected if not better off.

On the down side I've seen some bad changes. I've seen some dance pad owners bounce everyone off their pads in the middle of the night to get some free dwell. I've seen some dance pads altered not to pay out on a sim crash when they used to. Casino's resetting machines just before midnight to avoid pay out.

(Note: Everything in this paragraph was at a non-VGI site.)

Anshe Chung pulled up a mall and put the land for sale. Land price have started dropping. Available land seems to be up. The L$ market is stable. Or people got tired of screwing with it.

With the exception of VGI, there seems to be a decline in the quality of the Second Life. WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN?

_____________________

Thank You For Playing!
The Spork

Michael Seraph

Second Life Resident

Join date: 9 Nov 2004

Posts: 849

04-23-2006 18:25

It's been a week since what?

The Spork

Nobody

Join date: 8 Feb 2006

Posts: 100

04-23-2006 18:45

The end of the world. Or as they like to put it, "Removal of Traffic Incentives".

_____________________

Thank You For Playing!
The Spork

Jonas Pierterson

Dark Harlequin

Join date: 27 Dec 2005

Posts: 3,660

04-23-2006 18:51

How is cheaper land a decline in quality? The prices were already outrageous. Going down is a GOOD thing.

On less mall is a GOOD thing.

_____________________

Good freebies here and here

I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy

The Spork

Nobody

Join date: 8 Feb 2006

Posts: 100

04-23-2006 18:57

From: Jonas Pierterson

How is cheaper land a decline in quality? The prices were already outrageous. Going down is a GOOD thing.

One less mall is a GOOD thing.

Unless you INVESTED IN IT.

Then it's bad. And all the land owners did.

_____________________

Thank You For Playing!
The Spork

Nepenthes Ixchel

Broadly Offended.

Join date: 6 Dec 2005

Posts: 696

04-23-2006 20:05

Real-estate investors should be glad they screwed up in SL and not RL; there are people I know in Sydney that have lost hundreds of thousands of real dollars when the market shifted.

Jack Harker

Registered User

Join date: 4 May 2005

Posts: 552

04-23-2006 21:19

From: Jonas Pierterson

How is cheaper land a decline in quality? The prices were already outrageous. Going down is a GOOD thing.

On less mall is a GOOD thing.

Unless you recently had to sell off 1/4 of a sim that you bought when the prices were higher, then it's not quite such a good thing.

Losing a lag inducing mall on the other hand, IS a good thing.

Oh, and to the OP, you're not actually going to see much big change until dwell *actually* goes away in about two months from now.

Cheyenne Marquez

Registered User

Join date: 19 Sep 2005

Posts: 940

04-23-2006 22:35

From: Jack Harker

Oh, and to the OP, you're not actually going to see much big change until dwell *actually* goes away in about two months from now.

lol.

You spoil all the fun.

I was going to wait until all of the "omg the sky is falling" types finished posting
before I mentioned this.

Nepenthes Ixchel

Broadly Offended.

Join date: 6 Dec 2005

Posts: 696

04-23-2006 22:51

And I was going to use this as an opportunity to plug my upcoming line of prim hard-hats. *sighs*

Jonas Pierterson

Dark Harlequin

Join date: 27 Dec 2005

Posts: 3,660

04-23-2006 23:13

For your information, I'm a landowner who invested in their land. And I still say lower prices = good. Oh, and you were selling land before the announcement with your group

I know I bought some of it, at above market value.

_____________________

Good freebies here and here

I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy

Michael Seraph

Second Life Resident

Join date: 9 Nov 2004

Posts: 849

04-23-2006 23:39

Like I asked before, "A week since what?" Dwell won't be removed completely for a couple of months. I'm not sure that anything you see happening now has anything to do with dwell going bye bye.

Jack Harker

Registered User

Join date: 4 May 2005

Posts: 552

04-23-2006 23:41

From: Jonas Pierterson

For your information, I'm a landowner who invested in their land. And I still say lower prices = good. Oh, and you were selling land before the announcement with your group

I know I bought some of it, at above market value.

And I'm quite glad that you did.

Actually, the real place where I've lost money is from the drop in the value of the Linden between the point when I bought them to pay for land, and the point where I sold the land.

Which is why I'm quite glad to see that LL is getting rid of Dwell, because it's a sign to me that LL actually *is* serious about stopping the slide in the value of the Linden, which in turn gives me the confidence to hang onto those $L for a while, rather than dumping them imediately and contributing to the slide in value myself.

Jopsy Pendragon

Perpetual Outsider

Join date: 15 Jan 2004

Posts: 1,906

04-24-2006 00:28

I'm still kind of amused that people use the term "investment"
with land not for *immediately* re-sale.

In real life, does anyone pay, what, around 2% maybe 3%
property tax annually on an investment property?

If someone buys 1024sqm of land at L$6psqm, that's about us$20.
For every month they hold on to the land, they have to be able to
sell the land at L$3 per sqm MORE, to break even on their 'investment'.

Do folks buy land at L$33psqm these days?

A 500% annual tax rate on an 'investment' property? ouch.

Even at the most efficient sqm per us$ tier, its around 100% 'tax' per year.

The L$ used to buy the land sounds more like a security deposit to me,
not an investment.

Kazanture Aleixandre

Here I am.

Join date: 5 Oct 2005

Posts: 524

04-24-2006 01:15

From: The Spork

And this is what I've seen so far...

VGI Chamonix pulled up a couple pads and chairs. Traffic there INCREASED. In fact as I look through the casino right now I see 5 or 6 people just standing and waiting for a pad. Over the last week I've had trouble getting in to the sim. VGI seems completely unaffected if not better off. :)

On the down side I've seen some bad changes. I've seen some dance pad owners bounce everyone off their pads in the middle of the night to get some free dwell. I've seen some dance pads altered not to pay out on a sim crash when they used to. Casino's resetting machines just before midnight to avoid pay out. :( (Note: Everything in this paragraph was at a non-VGI site.)

Anshe Chung pulled up a mall and put the land for sale. Land price have started dropping. Available land seems to be up. The L$ market is stable. Or people got tired of screwing with it. :confused:

With the exception of VGI, there seems to be a decline in the quality of the Second Life. WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN?

LOL
Long comments on a wrong assumption:)
a week since what? dwell is not removed yet:D:DHAHAHA

The Spork

Nobody

Join date: 8 Feb 2006

Posts: 100

04-24-2006 11:48

From: Kazanture Aleixandre

LOL
Long comments on a wrong assumption

a week since what? dwell is not removed yet

HAHAHA

Exactly. And yet you can already see the results. Can't wait for next month when we're at 1/2 dwell!

_____________________

Thank You For Playing!
The Spork

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid

Join date: 20 Sep 2005

Posts: 20,263

04-24-2006 13:58

From: Jack Harker

Which is why I'm quite glad to see that LL is getting rid of Dwell, because it's a sign to me that LL actually *is* serious about stopping the slide in the value of the Linden,

If LL was serious about stopping the slide in the value of the Linden they'd phase out Premium accounts (i.e. just sell tier and let people buy extra Lindens on LindeX) and transfer part of the "savings" into increasing the dwell payments (but spread them out more evenly, rather than overpaying the top locations and underpaying everyone else). That way they could let the easily controlled dwell rather than the hard-to-control stipend tune the economy.

This would probably hurt their bottom line, at first, but it'd make SL more of a capitalist economy by making land and builds into real capital goods that are worth money as ongoing concerns.

Whether that's a good thing or not, I'm not going to say, but it would definitely make the capitalists here richer.

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid

Join date: 20 Sep 2005

Posts: 20,263

04-24-2006 14:01

From: Jopsy Pendragon

A 500% annual tax rate on an 'investment' property? ouch.

Even at the most efficient sqm per us$ tier, its around 100% 'tax' per year.

The L$ used to buy the land sounds more like a security deposit to me,
not an investment.

I've run into a couple of people looking to donate land to good causes. Perhaps it's sinking in.

It's been about a week now.
The Spork Nobody Join date: 8 Feb 2006 Posts: 100	04-23-2006 18:07 And this is what I've seen so far... VGI Chamonix pulled up a couple pads and chairs. Traffic there INCREASED. In fact as I look through the casino right now I see 5 or 6 people just standing and waiting for a pad. Over the last week I've had trouble getting in to the sim. VGI seems completely unaffected if not better off. On the down side I've seen some bad changes. I've seen some dance pad owners bounce everyone off their pads in the middle of the night to get some free dwell. I've seen some dance pads altered not to pay out on a sim crash when they used to. Casino's resetting machines just before midnight to avoid pay out. (Note: Everything in this paragraph was at a non-VGI site.) Anshe Chung pulled up a mall and put the land for sale. Land price have started dropping. Available land seems to be up. The L$ market is stable. Or people got tired of screwing with it. With the exception of VGI, there seems to be a decline in the quality of the Second Life. WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN? _____________________ Thank You For Playing! The Spork
Michael Seraph Second Life Resident Join date: 9 Nov 2004 Posts: 849	04-23-2006 18:25 It's been a week since what?
The Spork Nobody Join date: 8 Feb 2006 Posts: 100	04-23-2006 18:45 The end of the world. Or as they like to put it, "Removal of Traffic Incentives". _____________________ Thank You For Playing! The Spork
Jonas Pierterson Dark Harlequin Join date: 27 Dec 2005 Posts: 3,660	04-23-2006 18:51 How is cheaper land a decline in quality? The prices were already outrageous. Going down is a GOOD thing. On less mall is a GOOD thing. _____________________ Good freebies here and here I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
The Spork Nobody Join date: 8 Feb 2006 Posts: 100	04-23-2006 18:57 From: Jonas Pierterson How is cheaper land a decline in quality? The prices were already outrageous. Going down is a GOOD thing. One less mall is a GOOD thing. Unless you INVESTED IN IT. Then it's bad. And all the land owners did. _____________________ Thank You For Playing! The Spork
Nepenthes Ixchel Broadly Offended. Join date: 6 Dec 2005 Posts: 696	04-23-2006 20:05 Real-estate investors should be glad they screwed up in SL and not RL; there are people I know in Sydney that have lost hundreds of thousands of real dollars when the market shifted.
Jack Harker Registered User Join date: 4 May 2005 Posts: 552	04-23-2006 21:19 From: Jonas Pierterson How is cheaper land a decline in quality? The prices were already outrageous. Going down is a GOOD thing. On less mall is a GOOD thing. Unless you recently had to sell off 1/4 of a sim that you bought when the prices were higher, then it's not quite such a good thing. Losing a lag inducing mall on the other hand, IS a good thing. Oh, and to the OP, you're not actually going to see much big change until dwell actually goes away in about two months from now.
Cheyenne Marquez Registered User Join date: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 940	04-23-2006 22:35 From: Jack Harker Oh, and to the OP, you're not actually going to see much big change until dwell actually goes away in about two months from now. lol. You spoil all the fun. I was going to wait until all of the "omg the sky is falling" types finished posting before I mentioned this.
Nepenthes Ixchel Broadly Offended. Join date: 6 Dec 2005 Posts: 696	04-23-2006 22:51 And I was going to use this as an opportunity to plug my upcoming line of prim hard-hats. sighs
Jonas Pierterson Dark Harlequin Join date: 27 Dec 2005 Posts: 3,660	04-23-2006 23:13 For your information, I'm a landowner who invested in their land. And I still say lower prices = good. Oh, and you were selling land before the announcement with your group I know I bought some of it, at above market value. _____________________ Good freebies here and here I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Michael Seraph Second Life Resident Join date: 9 Nov 2004 Posts: 849	04-23-2006 23:39 Like I asked before, "A week since what?" Dwell won't be removed completely for a couple of months. I'm not sure that anything you see happening now has anything to do with dwell going bye bye.
Jack Harker Registered User Join date: 4 May 2005 Posts: 552	04-23-2006 23:41 From: Jonas Pierterson For your information, I'm a landowner who invested in their land. And I still say lower prices = good. Oh, and you were selling land before the announcement with your group I know I bought some of it, at above market value. And I'm quite glad that you did. Actually, the real place where I've lost money is from the drop in the value of the Linden between the point when I bought them to pay for land, and the point where I sold the land. Which is why I'm quite glad to see that LL is getting rid of Dwell, because it's a sign to me that LL actually is serious about stopping the slide in the value of the Linden, which in turn gives me the confidence to hang onto those $L for a while, rather than dumping them imediately and contributing to the slide in value myself.
Jopsy Pendragon Perpetual Outsider Join date: 15 Jan 2004 Posts: 1,906	04-24-2006 00:28 I'm still kind of amused that people use the term "investment" with land not for immediately re-sale. In real life, does anyone pay, what, around 2% maybe 3% property tax annually on an investment property? If someone buys 1024sqm of land at L$6psqm, that's about us$20. For every month they hold on to the land, they have to be able to sell the land at L$3 per sqm MORE, to break even on their 'investment'. Do folks buy land at L$33psqm these days? A 500% annual tax rate on an 'investment' property? ouch. Even at the most efficient sqm per us$ tier, its around 100% 'tax' per year. The L$ used to buy the land sounds more like a security deposit to me, not an investment.
Kazanture Aleixandre Here I am. Join date: 5 Oct 2005 Posts: 524	04-24-2006 01:15 From: The Spork And this is what I've seen so far... VGI Chamonix pulled up a couple pads and chairs. Traffic there INCREASED. In fact as I look through the casino right now I see 5 or 6 people just standing and waiting for a pad. Over the last week I've had trouble getting in to the sim. VGI seems completely unaffected if not better off. :) On the down side I've seen some bad changes. I've seen some dance pad owners bounce everyone off their pads in the middle of the night to get some free dwell. I've seen some dance pads altered not to pay out on a sim crash when they used to. Casino's resetting machines just before midnight to avoid pay out. :( (Note: Everything in this paragraph was at a non-VGI site.) Anshe Chung pulled up a mall and put the land for sale. Land price have started dropping. Available land seems to be up. The L$ market is stable. Or people got tired of screwing with it. :confused: With the exception of VGI, there seems to be a decline in the quality of the Second Life. WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN? LOL Long comments on a wrong assumption:) a week since what? dwell is not removed yet:D:DHAHAHA
The Spork Nobody Join date: 8 Feb 2006 Posts: 100	04-24-2006 11:48 From: Kazanture Aleixandre LOL Long comments on a wrong assumption a week since what? dwell is not removed yetHAHAHA Exactly. And yet you can already see the results. Can't wait for next month when we're at 1/2 dwell! _____________________ Thank You For Playing! The Spork
Argent Stonecutter Emergency Mustelid Join date: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 20,263	04-24-2006 13:58 From: Jack Harker Which is why I'm quite glad to see that LL is getting rid of Dwell, because it's a sign to me that LL actually is serious about stopping the slide in the value of the Linden, If LL was serious about stopping the slide in the value of the Linden they'd phase out Premium accounts (i.e. just sell tier and let people buy extra Lindens on LindeX) and transfer part of the "savings" into increasing the dwell payments (but spread them out more evenly, rather than overpaying the top locations and underpaying everyone else). That way they could let the easily controlled dwell rather than the hard-to-control stipend tune the economy. This would probably hurt their bottom line, at first, but it'd make SL more of a capitalist economy by making land and builds into real capital goods that are worth money as ongoing concerns. Whether that's a good thing or not, I'm not going to say, but it would definitely make the capitalists here richer.
Argent Stonecutter Emergency Mustelid Join date: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 20,263	04-24-2006 14:01 From: Jopsy Pendragon A 500% annual tax rate on an 'investment' property? ouch. Even at the most efficient sqm per us$ tier, its around 100% 'tax' per year. The L$ used to buy the land sounds more like a security deposit to me, not an investment. I've run into a couple of people looking to donate land to good causes. Perhaps it's sinking in.

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