land owner can delete any object on their parcel?

I'm not really sure where this goes so I'll try here

A few days ago I found something quite disturbing. Land owners can delete anything on their land - wether or not it belongs to them. As someone who shares group land with other people it means currently any officer can delete anything on the land (shared with group or not it doesn't matter). I'm not talking about returning items - I'm talking not-going-into-trash-doesn't-exist-at-all deletion.

With there being the ability to return an item to it's owner, why is there a need for a land owner to delete something that doesn't belong to them (other than just mean spite)? Would this qualify as some sort of bug?

No.

I allways "sent back" items that other residents have left on our groups land. But I see no problem in giving trusted officers the power to delete items, too. The difference is not that great, which you will realize after you have the first complex objects being "sent back" to you. (SL often desintegrates them into their prims, which makes them more or less unusable.)

If you don't want this to happen, better not litter someone elses land (in case you are not in the group). And if it is a group where you are a member have a careful look at who is an officer with this group. Making someone an officer in a group with shared property means trusting this person. If you don't trust them, better not go into the group.

I agree Dana. In addtion, there are rude, annoying people who will leave malicious scripts on your land, or leave X amount of prims on your land to try to fill up your parcel so you or anyone else cannot build anything. Why shouldn't you be able to delete these items?

If it is group land and you are in the group, I do not see why your items would be deleted. The best thing to do is to keep a copy of those items if you created them so you won't be at a loss if they ARE deleted.

Regards,
Mad

I normally return stuff, even if ppl have left it to be awkward and spiteful, because, sure deleting it they lose it forever, but its much easier to spam someones lost and found box (and screen muhhhahahaa) with the notice that 500 unlinked prims have been returned, than it is for me to bother selecting them and deleting them.

If anyone leaves anything that is a lot of prims and it looks like work in progress, I tend to check first with them or give some kind of warning its coming back to them in bits if they don't hurry on over and get it.

It's worth remembering that land owners are paying for their land. Tier is directly proportionate to land area, which is directly proportionate to the number of prims that can be placed on that land. By leaving objects on someone else's land you are depriving them of something they have paid for.

It's eminently reasonable that the owner of the land should be able to delete or return items if they so wish.

That said, most aren't hardnosed about it. But, the amount of clutter that gets left on land is surprising. Landowners have better things to do than chase up people who junk up their property. The responsibility for loss of items left on another's land rests entirely with whoever left the items.

Hold onto your socks; we used to be able to take possession of anything over our land perms and all woohoo.

I return things using the list in the land tools unless I think something's been left for griefing purposes. Those things get deleted so they don't get the satisfacation of knowing that I even noticed it.

Some things hang around a while though. There's a sailboat in my water. It looks okay there. The owner's been IMd and told where it is and that they can pick it up anytime they like. There's also a sheep in the house et cetera.

Sure, blame the sheep on someone else.

I believe if the object is nocopy, and you select delete then its actually returned to the user but may be in their trash

I am a land owner and do notice how much crap gets left around. I too make sure (as a courtesy) not to litter.

There are times however when it does happen. If you are flying over land in a plane, and then somehow get disconnected or the sim crashes or whatever, you may not know where your item is located. It would really suck if that plane was your only copy.

While I agree that most people do return the objects, I can see where this could really suck if someone decides to just get nasty. I can see more harm in allowing this rather than the good that comes from it.

Deleting a greifer's stuff does nothing to the greifer at all so I don't see what's gained from that. (Chances are anything that's left for greifing purposes has copy perms so the greifer most likely isn't losing anything they don't think could get lost).

Thanks at least all for validating that this isn't some kind of bug or something

I too am a land owner and currently take the view that I pay the US dollar tier, therefore the prims, the space, and any other computing power that go with my land are mine and mine alone, so I disable various options

However in the interests of being a good neighbour in this Metaverse I allow other people free access to any land I own, excluding anything I am developing (work in progress).

But I note that some people also bar general access to others regardless....whats the general feeling about that here

This might be the reason why no vehicle that I know of, is no-copy.
I can understand your concern in a hypothetical kind of way. After more then a year in SL I still have to experience this harmful possibilities. I had some nasty experience with residents littering our land with crap or spying devices. As a polite person I usually "send back" these, too - it is much easier than deleting.

I can think of one occasion when delete is a much nicer option - taking possession of a piece of land where you wish to remove trees prior to landscaping. It isn't kind to return 100 trees.

Our group sells some 20,000 to 40,000 sqm every night. Most of our customers "send back" everything that is on the parcel in the first few hours or minutes of owning it. And while I am a little sad because of that - sometimes we put a lot of effort in the trees and other plants - I consider it perfectly OK. I would not expect one of our customers to run around, select and delete 100s of trees. That's just too tedious.

As a land developer you better get used to a Lost and Found folder that is bloated and has to cleaned up regularily.

I have land in areas where everyone is friendly. That land is open to all comers. I even encourage noobs looking for quiet space to build to use part as a sort of sandbox.

I have other land where a significant proportion of the neighbors are aggressive, rude, and try and be intimidating.
[examples:about 10 seconds after I bought one plot someone *demanded* I sell it to them because they wanted it to expand - I refused and was called a 'horses ass'. Another one objected to a part completed build and gathered together three others who insisted I was somehow 'griefing' and AR'ed me - and much good it did them - and so it goes]

THAT land is set no fly, blanket ban. And it'll stay that way until the neighbourhood changes.
(Speaking of which, isn't it interesting? Some areas are just plain nice, decent landowners, tasteful builds... Others, Ak! Full of dickheads building tasteless crap.

Accessibility depends very much on local attitude where I'm concerned. I'm very easy going - to a point.

Dana, why not sell land with objects then? When I bought my current land, I so much wanted to have the trees and bushes where they was, but since they were owned by the seller (and land was not set to sell with objects), I had to return them because I wanted to set land to autoreturn.

Lis

Someone else will probably offer a viable reason why not to do this, but...

Personally, I wish landowners had the ability to *move* any objects that were on their parcel as well. I'd hate to delete or return an object that just needs to be slid over 2m out of the way.

Just try it, Lis! And soon you'll know why we don't do it.

OK, to make a long story short: trees and plants do not sell what you switch on "Sell with objects". Why? Don't ask me ...

Because you can return them, which has the same result for you AND if it's really junk it causes more problems for THEM.
If you can return items, why do you need to be able to delete them?

Oh, and it would be wonderful for malls if the landowner could move objects instead of having to schedule moves with all the vendors when redecorating...

If you can return items, why do you need to be able to delete them?

Land owner should have option and they currently do to return anything permission not asked permission of them to place them there in the first place by owners discression.

It would just always be nice to delete something if you can or see it where its at as a object placed or dropped on land. However its so much easier to just return it all to resident who placed it there on your land. Its your land your paying Tax on in full every month so its your right to delete or return to squatter or litterer of your land. Other people stuff can spoil your place if your not around.

I'm level headed enough to know i dont litter someone else plot, land, store, sim or space. I know someone else owns it...duh. However that seems like just to much common sense to some people. Some people just do it blatently anyway. I'm usually pretty nice about it but i got my limits. So instead of deleting what i cant see or was not asked permission for i return everything to owner from my land i prim or 1000 prims dont matter to me....fair is fair at 1 prim or 5000 prims.

I own a sim and when i bought it, it just left it opened to the grid untill i had developement started on it. Later tired of all the squatting i just made sim invisible to the grid while empty and to estate access only to residents. In one days time you not believe the amount of litter, garbage, stuff, builds other people started on it or left on it. Their take i think was hey....looks like lots of open land to me here, nothing here guess free for me to just build here and leave all my stuff. Thats stuff people do. To me thats squatting on others land use and land ownership. I have no problem if you build place it remove it when you leave or before you do or delete it whatever. If not when i check i return it all to owner and not matter to me how much prims it is. Here is the point. In RL you won't walk over to someone elses land and start to build!! Common sense. On large plots/ Sim you cant see all the prims others place .......I not have time to hunt down what you droped on my land or your land....so i just return it all. Flood your lost and found long folder long enough you get the point....hopefully not to do it to someone else.

My 2 cents.

Yes, /clap this will be a very nice and useful feature /cheer once it's iplemented.

Makes no difference who leaves junk on your land when YOU CAN'T EVEN GET ON YOUR LAND to delete it because the SIM IS FULL!!!

MadameG - Respectfully, this thread isn't discussing the "Region is full" problem, although I understand this is an issue that drives you nuts.

While your Prop 1003 has noble goals in mind, according to the way your proposal is written, you are asking for the amount of avatars allowed on a parcel to be in relationship to the percentage of the sim owned.

Unfortunately, a 512m plot is less than 1% of a sim. If your proposal became a reality, only 7/10ths of a person could visit a 512m parcel if 100 avatars were allowed per sim - which obviously makes no sense. You may be noticing you're not receiving a lot of votes for that reason.

Considering this issue is extremely important to you, I would strongly suggest you re-word your proposal to make it something that could be realistically implemented.

I have always found it tempting in the nasty neighborhoods to turn the land plot into a sandbox with scripts enabled, cleaned up twice a day and open to anyone. SO far I have resisted the temptation but it is getting harder and harder. mwuhahahaha