Tier Compensation
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Policy, Procedure and Ethics
should prim land be offered to those eligible to compensate for the covering of this content?
2 (18.2%)
should tier fees be adjusted if ALL land is not usable due to this issue?
2 (18.2%)
should there be a limit to the amount of L$ per sq. m. as to avoid extortion?
7 (63.6%)
Total votes: 11
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Temple Oe
Registered User
Join date: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 10
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12-03-2005 10:36
simple: policy, compensation, or suit for land extortionists
I believe that if policy is not adjusted that tier fees for business owners be altered to compensate for lost revenue. For example, a landowner that pays tiers for 1/2 region should be given some consideration. As in any business, this would not be tolerated. It is extortion. In the middle of one of my lands (over 11k) there are three 64 sq. m parcels set to sell for 20k. The signs are at angles in which I would have to set back considerably a wall or whatnot, therefore lessening the true available area than what I am paying for. The anti-extortion kit is a nice tool, but it does not solve the problem. I have sent a formal notice that I will take action if my tiers are not adjusted if this problem persists. It's either Mr. Divine adjust his price, policy is changed, or suit is filed. I practice law here in the United States and I know that no matter where the business lie, in cyberspace or three blocks down, there are laws that protect business owners. It is not a political standpoint on my behalf whatsoever, I am not even from the United States. It is not even a moral standpoint. It is an ethical one. As a successful business, Linden Labs should understand this. Of course Mr. Divine has the right to do whatever he wishes with his land.. however, if it causes loss of revenue, disturbance or distress to local residents or business owners, tier fees should reflect this. Why pay a full tier for a land that part of is unusable due to walls and trees, etc.? It undermines the creativity and visions we had when we bought it, in short, misrepresentation of sale in question. Since this liability does not lie with the original land owner, it can only trace back to one source which is Linden Labs. Don't get me wrong, I love Second Life and Linden Labs is an incredible company to do business with. The next 'bug' they should fix would be to either change policy or to adjust the tiers if ALL of the owned land cannot be used due to these signs and banners. Remember, we are paying real life currency for these tiers. It should be given the kind of time and attention as any other bug in world. Compensation could come from addition prim land, also. For the prims to put up a wall spanning from 2k long and 100 m high... it is not just to put that type of strain on residents. This isn't just an annoyance, it is a real issue that need be addressed. If anyone has any input, I will gladly listen with an open mind.
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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12-03-2005 11:06
This is a difficult question worthy of more detail.
I hold over 9000m+ myself, in Alice sim - and I share concerns about land extortion just as any land owner would. Yet, I think some clear definitions need to be put in place. When is it 'land extortion' and when is it simple, allowable, cagey land market speculation? Land speculation may not be... 'nice'... but if I owned say, 512m that was highly, highly coveted by a casino next door, I'd be a fool to let it go at First Land rates. So... what are the conditions? Were these parcels there first, and you bought up land around them well knowing they were there? Were there no such patches until one day, neighbouring land owner(s) sold off 64m bits? Are the signs you speak of designed to be intentionally annoying, or relatively unobtrusive 'for sale' signs? I would perhaps contact the "Law Society".
_____________________
 Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon!
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Ron Overdrive
Registered User
Join date: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,002
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12-03-2005 14:05
From: Desmond Shang When is it 'land extortion' and when is it simple, allowable, cagey land market speculation? From: someone
Its land extortion when offensive or extremely annoying content is placed on the land and grossly overpriced for little or no reason. Putting stuff up like Pro-Nazi signs, racist builds, spam generators(scanner equiped notecard givers and/or repeating sounds that have nothing to do with the surrounding atmosphere), RL political movements (wich have NO reason to be in SL in the first place), partical sprayers, physics manipulators (stuff like land mines, physics cannons, anti-grav objects, etc.), etc. (the list can go on) and charge the neighbors outragous fees to be rid of them. That is land extortion.
Buying a chunk of land and offering it for sale at a higher price to a neighboring business thats looking to expand is not even though it is a shady business practice.
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Michael Seraph
Second Life Resident
Join date: 9 Nov 2004
Posts: 849
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12-03-2005 16:54
From: Ron Overdrive Buying a chunk of land and offering it for sale at a higher price to a neighboring business thats looking to expand is not even though it is a shady business practice. How is that shady? It's basic capitalism. Buy low, sell high.
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Temple Oe
Registered User
Join date: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 10
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details
12-03-2005 17:41
if i build a wall to cover the area that is owned by said party, and then the next day the signs are moved at such an angle that they protrude through my wall and technically I cannot return the objects... well... now we should have a problem. it isnt the content, people may express themselves in whichever manner they wish, they pay their tiers as well... but when it interferes onto my boundaries and there is nothing I can do about it but move my walls further back onto my land, lessening my available area to work, then something needs to be done. I dont care if it were a picture of cute, fluffy kittens. I cant have it sticking through the wall of my shop. When I pan in with my camera it crosses the boundary line, but when I look at the objects on the land itself, it does not appear. Whatever this technicality is should be fixed. As for the L$ per sq. m., I hardly think that 64 sq. m. is worth 20k, but that's his business, not mine. My business is what I own and what I do with it. If I am unable to use 100% of my land that I pay for, then I shouldn't be paying as much as I am. It's as simple as any land transaction. Whatever this person is making these objects out of, phantom or whatnot, should still show in my objects if it obviously crosses the boundary. For some reason it is not. All I ask is that either he change the material of the objects so that they cannot cross, or be compensated for what I am out. It isnt a tall order. It isn't a political or moral view. Just don't have it sticking through my walls, eh? Sound fair?
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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12-03-2005 18:15
So... the landowner in question is placing objects upon your property, by virtue of the fact that they don't fit wholly upon his? Easy. File an abuse report, for each instance - that's harrassing you on your own land. After a few repeats the landholder will get suspended, then removed, and the parcels may well end up in the hands of the Company. At that point you might pick them up for $L 1 per meter soon thereafter.
_____________________
 Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon!
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Zapoteth Zaius
Is back
Join date: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 5,634
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12-03-2005 18:26
My eyes! Please use the big key between backspace and shift once in a while..
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I have the right to remain silent. Anything I say will be misquoted and used against me.--------------- Zapoteth Designs, Temotu (100,50)--------------- 
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Ron Overdrive
Registered User
Join date: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,002
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12-03-2005 20:39
From: Michael Seraph How is that shady? It's basic capitalism. Buy low, sell high. Its shady if the land cost wasn't low to begin with. Like say the average for a 512m2 plot is 5000L in your sim and someone puts it up for sale. You're looking to buy more land for your business and before you buy it someone else does then jacks the price up to 7000L because they caught wind that you're looking for land wich happens to be close by. To me thats shady.
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Chase Hermes
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 66
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hmmm
12-03-2005 20:58
From: Desmond Shang So... the landowner in question is placing objects upon your property, by virtue of the fact that they don't fit wholly upon his? Easy. File an abuse report, for each instance - that's harrassing you on your own land. After a few repeats the landholder will get suspended, then removed, and the parcels may well end up in the hands of the Company. At that point you might pick them up for $L 1 per meter soon thereafter. I filed abuse report and nada happened.
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