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Linden Labs Thread Censorship

Paulismyname Bunin
Registered User
Join date: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 243
05-05-2006 03:47
After reading through the multiple threads relating to the issue of the disputed Linden auction process, and having had the chance to assess all sides of this problem, that is Linden Labs, the Avatars connected with the disputed auction, and various other third parties connected and not connected with this disputed process, I have reached a stage where I have formed my own view of this problem.

That view I have formed is that people were able to exploit a software flaw to gain an advantage in the auction process that was never intended to occur by Linden

What has yet to be established is the issue of a malicious or an innocent hack, and of course the situation with regard to un-connected third party transactions following on from that initial hack.

Having said that this is only my personal view and it has been formed by thread reading alone, ( I am not as computer literate as some of you devious lot out there). But given that this is an issue that has repercussions for all of us if Linden are able to undo a former completed transaction I personally believe that this is a problem that SHOULD be a matter of public debate if the impacted Avatars wish it to be so.

After all many of us have debated the separate issues of the Linden Dollar, land values and the economy to the “nth” degree in this forum, usually without censorship from Linden.

Given all these soft facts I personally do not believe that thread censorship on this topic is a desirable process. After all as I said before, the issue of undoing completed transactions effects us all, and if it is not used properly could cause a loss of confidence in the process, which would impact on Linden Labs.

Also as I said previously I am not as computer literate as some of you, and it is only after reading the various threads I have formed a view that is more favourably inclined towards Linden, than it could have been.

Therefore providing individuals refrain from the use of excess Anglo Saxon language and simply debate the points as they see them, it is a mistake by Linden to close down the threads, and could cause a loss of confidence in the platform. By leaving most of the threads open Linden have actually gained, by closing them they could shoot themselves in the foot as some could think they (Linden) have something to hide
Blakar Ogre
Registered User
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 209
05-05-2006 06:16
What censorship? They did not censor the discussion about the issue. They closed one thread and others are still open.

Also:
From: someone
What has yet to be established is the issue of a malicious or an innocent hack, and of course the situation with regard to un-connected third party transactions following on from that initial hack.[/SUOTE]

The only form of innocent hacking I know is the one where people hack things merely to aid others with no benefit to them at all except of the joy of rendering a service thanks to their intellect.

When you use hacks to get an unfair advantage you'll need to be very special to be innocent.

I don't really see why we have to keep up this discussion anyway. By now everything has been said. A lot of people here have pointed out why it will be considered malicious, those that did it still claim they will go to court. So let them go to court and we'll see what comes out of it. In the end I'd be amazed if any of them would be stupid enough to go to court so it'll probably die a silent death.
Darkness Anubis
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,628
05-05-2006 06:21
From: Blakar Ogre
What censorship? They did not censor the discussion about the issue. They closed one thread and others are still open.

Also:
From: someone
What has yet to be established is the issue of a malicious or an innocent hack, and of course the situation with regard to un-connected third party transactions following on from that initial hack.[/SUOTE]

The only form of innocent hacking I know is the one where people hack things merely to aid others with no benefit to them at all except of the joy of rendering a service thanks to their intellect.

When you use hacks to get an unfair advantage you'll need to be very special to be innocent.

I don't really see why we have to keep up this discussion anyway. By now everything has been said. A lot of people here have pointed out why it will be considered malicious, those that did it still claim they will go to court. So let them go to court and we'll see what comes out of it. In the end I'd be amazed if any of them would be stupid enough to go to court so it'll probably die a silent death.


Even if they do go to court it will likely die a silent death. I don't see LL releasing details of the outcome. It would be legally foolish to do so.
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Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
05-05-2006 06:57
All the threads concerning this is just one side of a story. I liken it to someone who gets banned, for one reason or another, and posting "I got banned and didn't do anything wrong!!!". One sided stories are simply posted in an attempt to gain pity.
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
05-05-2006 07:06
From: Toy LaFollette
All the threads concerning this is just one side of a story. I liken it to someone who gets banned, for one reason or another, and posting "I got banned and didn't do anything wrong!!!". One sided stories are simply posted in an attempt to gain pity.


haha Toy's right. And the Linden's usually don't respond to these types of posts because it's just a waste of their time. If you're ever in doubt, you can post to Second Life Answers and sometimes get a Linden response.
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Paulismyname Bunin
Registered User
Join date: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 243
05-05-2006 09:12
It depends on how much money is involved Toy and Ingrid. (legal action)

Linden dollars are one thing but banned accounts with real US dollars in them are another.

I understand that in the USA there are plenty of lawyers who take on contingency legal work on a no win no fee basis.

Having said that I am (as I said) inclined towards the view Linden were correct in their actions. But because this is a platform (and not a game) where some people have invested thousands of real US dollars (and in a few cases a great deal more) I want to be sure of that view. It is a natural action of a potential investor called "due dilligence"

Full open debate brings these things out and even one banned thread is bad news.

Just my views of course DYOR as they say
Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
05-05-2006 09:19
The TOS (which you electronically signed) states the risks..these auctions can be considered fraud agaisnt LL and as such the freeze and seizure is completely appropriate and legal. Its a game (though can be used as a platform if you desire), so why worry unless you actually trying to hurt the company?
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Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
05-05-2006 09:19
From: Paulismyname Bunin
It depends on how much money is involved Toy and Ingrid. (legal action)

Linden dollars are one thing but banned accounts with real US dollars in them are another.

I understand that in the USA there are plenty of lawyers who take on contingency legal work on a no win no fee basis.

Having said that I am (as I said) inclined towards the view Linden were correct in their actions. But because this is a platform (and not a game) where some people have invested thousands of real US dollars (and in a few cases a great deal more) I want to be sure of that view. It is a natural action of a potential investor called "due dilligence"

Full open debate brings these things out and even one banned thread is bad news.

Just my views of course DYOR as they say


Do you honestly believe no matter what amt of money is involved, that the forums will be the medium to settle this fiasco? I surely dont, all I have seen is whining from one side.
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"So you see, my loyalty lies with Second Life, not with Linden Lab. Where I perceive the actions of Linden Lab to be in conflict with the best interests of Second Life, I side with Second Life."-Jacek
Barbarra Blair
Short Person
Join date: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 588
05-05-2006 09:20
There is one problem with Linden Labs legal position, and that is that they need to give the offending party the opportunity to mitigate damages. Of course, perhaps they did, and we just don't know about it.

The courts take a dim view of people who don't make reasonable efforts to settle disputes before they wind up before the judge.
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
05-05-2006 09:26
From: Paulismyname Bunin
Full open debate brings these things out and even one banned thread is bad news.


Full, open debate does not occur on a forum where true identity is unknown and multiple accounts are held by one player, all adding anecdotal evidence to support the claims of their own main account.
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go to Nocturnal Threads :mad:
Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
05-05-2006 09:28
From: Barbarra Blair
There is one problem with Linden Labs legal position, and that is that they need to give the offending party the opportunity to mitigate damages. Of course, perhaps they did, and we just don't know about it.

The courts take a dim view of people who don't make reasonable efforts to settle disputes before they wind up before the judge.


Does anyone truly know what LL's legal position is? They have, rightfully so, kept their part of this out of the public domain.
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go to Nocturnal Threads :mad:
Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
05-05-2006 09:44
Worst case scenario, the guy who forward-bombed the email to every entity online (ebay? wtf?) will get Linden Lab sent to the Better Business Bureau. But I doubt he thought of that; he wants compensation and he wants it NOW, nestled safely in his bondage radio email address (seriously...)

He might as well email [email]george.bush@whitehouse.gov[/email] for all the good that'll do him.

It's unprofessional to send out a non-spellchecked document. Doubly so to send it to parties obviously not involved (sprint? ebay?). Triply so to post it on the forums. Quadruply so to demand in-game compensation.

Sheesh.
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Paulismyname Bunin
Registered User
Join date: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 243
05-05-2006 10:16
From: Gabe Lippmann
Full, open debate does not occur on a forum where true identity is unknown and multiple accounts are held by one player, all adding anecdotal evidence to support the claims of their own main account.


Well it has worked pretty well to date in this case Gabe. It appears that once the principle of the cause of software error by Linden was as a result of a type of free format website entry (which came out on the BBs) was established, that point cleared Linden Labs.

I would not have known that if it was not for the posts on it and I will remember that point in real life secure website data entry issues. (I am not a computer wizo as some of you lot are)