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Access Fees, How much for How Long?

Michael Seraph
Second Life Resident
Join date: 9 Nov 2004
Posts: 849
04-30-2006 12:48
Now that dwell is on its way out, I figure many people will need to charge access fees to cover the loss. The question is, how much for how long? What would be the minimum hourly or daily fee per person to replace the dwell payment? Does anybody have any ideas?
Jenny Marshall
Registered User
Join date: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 116
04-30-2006 13:15
From: Michael Seraph
Now that dwell is on its way out, I figure many people will need to charge access fees to cover the loss. The question is, how much for how long? What would be the minimum hourly or daily fee per person to replace the dwell payment? Does anybody have any ideas?


Considering the fact that I always (yes everytime I go clubbing) tip the Dj , dancers and host , I would not pay for any admission fees. As I see it I am already "paying for entertainment".

Of course it can be forced that a club owner will charge admission fees ... in wich case I would definitly stop to tip. I usually end up paying anywhere from L$ 500-1000 per night so in the end for me it would probably be cheaper if the land owners made an admission fee :P

Yes my way of clubbing costs a lot , but I figure if the entertainment do what their cover letter indicates ... entertain me ... then it is worth it.

But either way if an admission fee is to be asked , then that place has to be worth paying for. And since I for one won't just pay a random admittance fee for a place I dont know , I guess I wont be going to new places ;)

With regards to possibly charging admittance for shops to "offset loss of dwell income" , that would just be rediculous in my opinion... If that shop sells anything worthwhile , they dont need the dwell (or admittance fee) , they'd make their cash from sales anyway.

The only places I can really see a reason to ask admission would be a club. And only if that club actually pays its employees. Not like a lot seem to do , let the employees "live off tips".
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Michael Seraph
Second Life Resident
Join date: 9 Nov 2004
Posts: 849
04-30-2006 14:02
Right now Dwell payments help cover tier fees too. I don't see retailers charging access fees, but I do see clubs having cover charges. These businesses were started with the dwell payments as a part of the plan. Now that those payments are scheduled to end, a different business model is required.

All I'm asking is what would be the minimum access charge per person per hour to cover the loss.
Jenny Marshall
Registered User
Join date: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 116
04-30-2006 14:32
Then those business plans would (or should) also include paying their staff.

Wich more often then not does not happen.

So to answer your question , I'd probably pay L$50-100 per hour if the club is good. But I would cease to tip and assume that the staff would also be paid from the income like any decent business would do. After all its the decent staff (event hosts and dj's and dancers) that draw the people to your club in the first place , not just the "pretty pictures".

Don't get me wrong , I'm all for a decent run business and I do believe in the "credit where credit is due" thing, so I'll pay for something if I see it's worth it.

I just also think that there are more people who do the same I do and will respond in the same way (i.e. stop tipping if you have to pay to get in in the first place). So you may want to calculate that into your business plan or unpaid dancers start leaving your club , dj's stop jamming for you ... event hosts stop doing events ... and then your patrons stop comming (and pay for the entrance fees) ;)

No I am not a dancer , nor am I affiliated to any club in anyway other then a ViP like pretty much the whole SL community. I just see things happen and talk to people ... learn a lot along the way :P
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Kenn Nilsson
AeonVox
Join date: 24 May 2005
Posts: 897
04-30-2006 15:04
I really do think clubs will need to start charging admittance fees...

...which will also force clubs to compete with interesting events through which they might draw admittance...

...which will improve SL tremendously.
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Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms chasing ghosts, eating magic pills, and listening to repetitive, addictive, electronic music.
Michael Seraph
Second Life Resident
Join date: 9 Nov 2004
Posts: 849
04-30-2006 15:36
I'm not asking how much you would pay. I would like to know how much is necessary to cover the loss of dwell payments.

And I don't understand why it is your business if a club pays or doesn't pay the people who volunteer to work there. Isn't that between them? It's not like people are forced to work for tips. Nobody is working for tips in SL in order to feed their families. And before I get flamed, I don't have any employees. Don't need any.
Gxeremio Dimsum
Esperantisto
Join date: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 67
04-30-2006 15:41
From: Michael Seraph
I'm not asking how much you would pay. I would like to know how much is necessary to cover the loss of dwell payments.


Well my estimate (total rough guess here) is that visitors who stay for thirty minutes or so bring in an average of 5 lindens in dwell currently. The formula has to do with what percentage of their time in SL they spend in your place, and my guess is based on what I've experienced over the last month and a half. That doesn't factor in tips, which as many people have mentioned they would not pay if they were charged an admisson fee. See my thread/poll "Payment for events" to register your opinions on this topic!
Michael Seraph
Second Life Resident
Join date: 9 Nov 2004
Posts: 849
04-30-2006 15:45
From: Gxeremio Dimsum
Well my estimate (total rough guess here) is that visitors who stay for thirty minutes or so bring in an average of 5 lindens in dwell currently. The formula has to do with what percentage of their time in SL they spend in your place, and my guess is based on what I've experienced over the last month and a half. That doesn't factor in tips, which as many people have mentioned they would not pay if they were charged an admisson fee. See my thread/poll "Payment for events" to register your opinions on this topic!



Thanks Gxeremio. $L5 per half hour probably wouldn't kill traffic, and if it covers the dwell payment loss it would be perfect.
Barbarra Blair
Short Person
Join date: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 588
04-30-2006 15:51
Most visitors who stay for 30 minutes only bring in a small fraction of a Linden.

25 people sitting on your land for an hour would bring in L$25 or L$35 if you're lucky. Dwell payments have always been puny.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
04-30-2006 16:21
From: Michael Seraph
All I'm asking is what would be the minimum access charge per person per hour to cover the loss.
L$0.

It's too easy to "make a club". You can even do it with a Basic account and no tier fees, if you're a fast talker.
Michael Seraph
Second Life Resident
Join date: 9 Nov 2004
Posts: 849
04-30-2006 16:45
From: Argent Stonecutter
L$0.

It's too easy to "make a club". You can even do it with a Basic account and no tier fees, if you're a fast talker.


?
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
04-30-2006 17:30
Let's say I want to dance. I want to dance with cool people. I want to dance with cool people in Second Life.

Here's what I do.

I find a clump of green dots on the map, bop over there, and see what's up. Now, they may be a pay club, they may be a free club, they may be some people in a sandbox, they may be some people on their own land.

If it's a pay club, I bop on. Because I'm not gonna pay just to find that the people there aren't cool.

If it's a free club, I hang around to see if they're cool. If not, I bop on.

If they're not in a club, I hang around to see if they're cool.

Eventually I find some cool people. I establish my coolness. I go, "hey, I know a great nighclub, and it's free, wanna check it out?".

5000 people on, eventually someone says "yes".

I pull the club out of my back pocket, pass the stream address to the landowner, and away we go. Plus, I get cool points for next time.

And I don't need to pay LL a penny to do it.