An Almost Ignored Issue In the Land Auction Abuse

Aside from the obvious Issue of the Auction and what should LL do about the land in question etc., there is another issue that was touched on in one of the other threads but has not really been discussed. That being

Who owns the US dollar balance in ones account?

A scenario.
An AV in SL has managed to accumuate $300 US in their account selling on Lindex. Through mistaken identity or false abuse reports (or whatever means) their account is banned. What happens to that $300?

Please note I am not making a case for guilt or innocence of the people involved in the land auction abuse scandal. This truely is a hypothetical scenario.

I personally think LL needs a stated policy for such cases. This scandal brought to light for me how insecure leaving cash in my account could be. I suspect I am not the only one that feels this way.

Discuss, Debate, Argue, Rip to shreds

A Second potential outgrowth. How would LL confiscating these funds affect the Economy?

I've made four attempts to transfer my $2,000.00 from my account to paypal, but now that my account in secondlife is frozen, Linden keeps terminating the transfer.

I have over 800,000 lindens I'd like to sell, but Linden won't let them on the exchange.

I've tried to cancel my other accounts where my credit cad information is located, and linden won't let me cancel those other accounts that don't even have any lindens or dollars or land in them.

Go figure....

MarcWoebegone Au

Haven't you threatened legal action? Out of curiousity, what were you expecting would happen after you did this?

Reading the TOS correctly, I think LL will keep everything you have in US $ if your account is terminated by them because of "suspicions of fraud, violations of other laws or regulations, or deliberate disruptions to or interference with the Service."

My advice would be to cash out ALL THE WAY if you are worried about such stuff. Let LL bill your credit card.

From the TOS:

7.1 Termination. Linden has the right at any time for any reason or no reason to suspend or terminate your Account, terminate this Agreement, and/or refuse any and all current or future use of the Service without notice or liability to you. Without limiting the foregoing, in the event an Account is suspended or terminated for material breach by you (as determined in Linden's sole discretion) of this Agreement or the Community Standards, Linden may suspend or terminate the Account associated with such breach and any or all other Accounts held by you or your affiliates, and your breach shall be deemed to apply to all such Accounts. Upon request from Linden, you agree to delete any electronic or printed copies of information or software programs that you received from Linden. In the event that Linden suspends or terminates your Account or this Agreement, you understand and agree that: (a) you shall receive no refund or exchange for any unused time on a subscription, any Land Use Fees, any Linden Dollars (L$) that you hold, or for anything else (other than potentially receiving a refund for a portion of the initial land purchase price, as described in this Section 7.1 below); (b) Linden will attempt to sell at auction any land that you hold, and that any money received from such auctions will be applied to satisfy your existing obligations to Linden and others, as determined by Linden in its sole discretion; and (c) in addition to any money that you owe, you will be charged the lesser of (i) the aggregate amount received from such auctions and (ii) one hundred dollars ($100) (the "Resale Fee" as reimbursement for costs associated with the resale of land. Any money remaining from the sale of land after the repayment of your obligations and the Resale Fee may be returned to you. Notwithstanding the foregoing, no money will be returned to you in the event that your Account is terminated due to suspicions of fraud, violations of other laws or regulations, or deliberate disruptions to or interference with the Service.

Ty Namssor.

I think what has me concerned here is that alot of people have a potentially huge sum of money to loose if some griefer or business competitor took it in their heads to gang AR someone falsely. It has been shown in the past (in incedents discussed in the forums)that once an AR is filed it is almost impossible to defend oneself. Someone could find themselves frozen or banned and have no clue why and just be out the money.

I don't think I'll be keeping my cash in my SL account, other than what I need to meet monthly expenses. I just wish that there were a way to get it out without paying huge fees.

As far as I know, I've never been AR'd, but I'm sure that day comes for everyone.

Unless you do something very serious, I wouldn't worry about it. They usually give you 1-2 warnings, then suspend you for a few days. If you do more, you get a week suspension, then after that you get reviewed for a ban.

This is exactly what I mean.

THere is some real incentive now for people to cash out L$ and then withdraw that money to their Paypal (or whatever method they prefer).

There could be some very real repercussions on the economy if people have A> Lost that much faith in LLs ability to do the right thing regarding ARs and B>Cash out huge sums they have been sitting on for awhile

I am sure there is a C,D, E etc these are just the 2 I think of off the top of my head

False AR's are in fact considered abuse and are subject to disciplinary action. There has yet to my knowledge never been a single person banned due to false AR's filed against them, just a significant number of people who felt they could 'turn public opinion' by claiming such. (the ones i have seen, have in fact quite often been people who have earned quite *REAL* ar's from actions that they've done in world)

I hope you are right Eltee.

I only know what I have read here and an answer I got from a Linden at one time that quite litterally said someone that had been AR'd would not be notified until discipline was handed out. This Linden informed me that if you think you have been Ar'd file a rebuttal. If you weren't the rebuttal is tossed if you were its considered.

LL has more resources for tracking incidents than is 'commonly' beleived. The incidence of false AR's being taken seriously is probably extremely *extremely* low.

I can't say it would never happen, but it will certainly not be enough to get an upstanding citizen of SL on the ban list.

Opinion:

What a dreadful possibility!

I have long been concerned that LL is straddling the worlds of "this is your game" and "this is your real-life business" without any of the safeguards real-life business would require, and that at some point this contradiction will trip them up. This may be that point.

I do know that if LL takes a customer's money improperly - and I have no idea whether they did or not, and I'm not saying they did or even would - but if it did happen, then no amount of TOS would protect them from the legal repercussions of that.

coco

I'm a small company that among other functions holds relatively small balances of cash for people. It comes to my attention that some of these accounts are being used for fraudulent purposes. The allegations are serious and obviously not frivulous though of course not proven in a court of law.

Now let's see - what do you think will happen if I just let that money they made go. Do you think that the people they defrauded will not come after me since they crooks have long since fled? Do you really think that by saying they will freeze the accounts, LL is saying anything different than any other company? I guarantee you that any company holding your cash will have the same language in their user agreement.

None of this is a commentary on the highly entertaining auction situation. I'm just saying you're delusional if you think any company would not freeze assets in their custody expected of being used in or obtained through fraud.