Linden Lab to sell Lindens directly (the poll)

Over the weekend, LL announced a change to the TOS which would pave the way for LL to print and sell money directly. Here is the announcement:

/3/d3/105351/1.html


Here are a few relavent discussion threads:
/130/92/105352/1.html
/130/91/105390/1.html
/108/bf/105394/1.html

What do you think?

If you are undecided, please post what you would like to know about LL's plans.

In order to make an informed opinion, we really do need more detailed information regarding this policy change.

This matter is much too important to have announced in such a nonchalant "oh by the way" type fashion.

I'll give LL the benefit of the doubt and remain undecided until we get more detailed information.

I voted Yes because I believe this will greatly accelerate the demise of the wora'uld mentality and lead us three steps closer to forcing general acceptance of the software as a distributable development platform.

Go Lindens! Go Lindens! Go Lindens!

I was floored by this also. And talk about aweful timing....Lindex was getting ready to rally upward prior to this little bomb. I would have thought that they would have waited until the $L showed signs of increased value prior to announcing such a dramatic change in company philosophy.

Do you supose they kinda sorta tried to sneak it by us, like ...

"Hey residents were going to update...@#%mumble$#&weplantoselllindenssoon@(*^mumble$#... the TOS"

No. This is their routine communication procedure and it has never managed to slip by the vultures.

I don't see this as a disaster, but I don't feel like arguing either, so....

OMG! WE'RE ALL GONNA GET SPLATTENED! HIDE THE WOMENS AND CHILDREN, CASH OUT AND HIT THE HILLS.

I'm undecided. The ToS is no more than a clarification of what has been true at all times. LL could create L$ and give it away in dwell, stipend, ... For some of those you had no control on the amount. They were given away FOR FREE and with no clear indication on the amount (e.g. dwell). Now when LL says that they might sell L$ that is a big issue? Who says they'll sell at a better rate than Lindex anyway? They move away from giving them for free towards giving them for money and there's a reason to cry foul?

Let's just wait and see what their plans are. While this may be a step towards something worse it can as well be a step towards a much better system. Untill they actually implement something you don't know and any you're just deciding based on paranoia.

I cant have an opinion on the basis of the info already recieved, so I will wait.

Now be honest, Linden, was the $1.7M in US sales the other day a result of implementing this concept already, and trying to gain consensus by advertising after the fact?

Was that part of the conditions of the $11M buyin from venture capital? Sale of gazillions of lindens at a set price to the venture capitalists, and then take over of the ability to sell directly?

My issue is this: LL already had the capability to add linden to the system . . . and are all the time. This change just lets them make money off of the process (besides having a viable platform ). Does Alan Greenspan make money off of pushing inflation by adding money to the system? At least not in so obvious of a way. In short it's a huge conflict of interest as by controlling the economy in a well thought out manner you are making no money off of it directly, by being reckless with money supply and inflation they make direct profits. This is a BAD idea imo.

If the VC's have an L$ deal, this could be even better for them than an IPO, long-term.

edit: I doubt seriously if this is the case, but one never knows.

There are several thoughts to this decision.

IF the L$ starts rising in value (in other words, there aren't enough L$ on the market, so L$ cost L150 / $1) then Linden Lab is going to either have to give away L$ as stippends or they can sell them and make some cash in the process. I have nothing against LL making a bit of money. But the very idea that L$ would increase that much in value is stupid. It's not going to happen.

I wonder why it is this announcement is made at a time when the L$ is so devaluated. When L$ are selling L302 / $1 there is no indication at all that this kind of step is needed or even needs to be considered.

Linden Lab has said they would never sell L$. Now we see this is not so. We might hope that they will only sell L$ if it really comes down to absolute need to balance the economy. But we've seen Linden Lab pull too many fast ones in the past, not always for the good of the customers, to believe this is the case. Linden Lab is a company and they have to worry about their profit line, but if they ever start putting their profit line ahead of the interests of their customers, if they start putting their investors and stockholders ahead of the people that are PAYING for their system, then that is the time people need to kiss them goodbye and find something else to do.

One thing is for sure. If land holders can't sell L$ because LL is selling L$ and merchants can't sell L$ because LL is selling L$, then there will be no land holders and there will be no merchants. Ya hope LL will be smart enough to know this and never ever even go there.

I would think maybe LL is making this policy as a warning to LL hoard people who have been gobbing up L$ in a plan to maybe drive the cost of L$ way up. I don't know exactly how they'd do that, but this would be a statement from LL that they will not let this happen. If that's all it is, that's great. So for now I'll believe the best and just let LL know that if they ever cross that line they will prolly have to answer to a lot of really angry people.

I really don't think anybody hoards Lindens, and I've seen no effort to drive the price up.


It is a really, really bad idea for Lindens Labs to sell Lindens to drive the price down unless they are also willing to buy Lindens to drive the price up.

The value of the Linden dollar is low because it isn't good for much. If they want it to be worth more, then it needs to be good for purchasing something beside tiny plots of imaginary land and US dollars.

Selling lindens is basically printing money. They take dollars, and they increase the amount of lindens on the market. And increasing the supply of lindens decreases the value of lindens, leading to price increases. Hence inflation.

While it is common for South American dictatorships to pay their residents by printing money, this is not a good idea for SL. I would like to see more info concerning the money supply posted in the economic data.

If LL wants to pay its residents, it should take lindens off the market first, through taxes and usage fees, just like a real government would. But you can’t just print money like that, especially since we are already experiencing inflation.

It would also be good to create a price index so we can better monitor inflation. That is crucial to any economy.

Not very good feedback on this for Linden Labs... I sense a revolt depending on how this is implemented.

We need a Rebel Flag to show our rebellion to the State.

I had just came to my final decision to make my first investment (small as it is compared to some) for 2 sims withing the next 4-5 weeks. I have now placed my entire project on hold as 2500.US is not something to sneeze at for many of us.

My plans were modest, but would allow us places to expand and play while renting enough to pay for our own private expansion and playground. If the economy goes, I don't want my investment to end up a loss. If I were wealthy, this would be no problem, but I'm not, and most of us arn't.

This potential disaster has caused me to "Take a step back" and re-evaluate my investments in what I thought to be, and still is if held together, the best thought out and implimented game concept to come to us where commerce is promoted and not frowned upon or penalties given for doing such actions.

Im fairly new to 2nd Life. I was extremly excited that finally a game company allowed and promoted commerce (opposite of all the others who try to stop it). IMO this is the one main direction Linden took that excelled this game to its current state in the short life it's had thus far. Its not the graphics, or the ability to play as such, many other companies have the ability to and can develop games of such nature but its the concept, freedoms and ability they have provided to us to promote growth and commerce. Without this in place, it would become another short lived game and a memory we talk about while playing the next game that will takes its place, and will if this one tumbles. We can learn alot from history.

The idea of a potential economic disaster, which is inevitable in any country rl or sl when infusing more money, has made many of us think about investments into the game. It doesn't take a financial wizard to understand the concepts of what printing and selling money will do to the economy and the inevitable repercussions of such actions in the realm it takes place in.

I will now "take a step back" and sit on my hard earned US$ and not move forward until this shakes out, hoping for the best. We are now making alternate plans in case Linden does start printing and selling. This will not include investing money in this game as we had intended. As I said, Im not big, 2500.US is a drop in the bucket, but I'm sure many others feel the same way and only 100 players at this rate is 250,000.US It will add up.

I really wonder whats going on though. I've seen alot over 20 years in business and it makes me wonder. When dealing in millions of real currency, it's hard to "give the benefit of the doubt" as anyone dealing in currency at this level most certainly has a goal, some are known, some are not. We can only hope there good goals and agendas. Is there a private agenda? Are we coming to the next phase? We just don't know, that is held for a priveledged few.

I have no problem with anyone making money including Linden which would be well deserved for what they brought us, but don't let the empire fall...

Its difficult to phathom such an action from a company so large unless it has been premeditated for a specific goal potentially triggered by a certain level attained. I don't believe Linden could have achieved this level of success so far with just shear luck but had the intelligence needed to formulate and achive it. Of coarse these paragraphs of what may appear to be cynisisms is speculation and just thoughts running through my mind but still is food for thought. Non the less, it's enough to put the brakes on investing my money here till I feel Linden is not going to do a L$ infusion.

Just for those who support this; I can understand if there is a real need, but currently there is plenty of L$ for sale by those who make make L$ by there hard work and creativity. So let me ask you this: Why would you need more L$ if we have enough and if doing so would deminish the current exchange rate? Think about it....

I'm still scratching my head over "why", if Linden needs more profit, I would much rather pay an increased monthly subscription rate then to see them take such actions and potential ruin this for the majority. Again, another speculation. Or how about charging a small modest fee for all the free accounts floating around. I'm sure the number of free accounts has to be in the 5 digits if not 6 easily.

best Regards

As i'm reading thru this thread, i have to wonder if i'm the ONLY one who has figured out what POSITIVE reason the Lindens may have for this decision.

(POSITIVE for the RESIDENTS, that is.)

how many of us have hoped and asked and some even demanded that they be able to pay tier fees and monthly (or annual) membership fees in Linden$? what would be the point of LL accepting payment in $L? oh! i know! if they could SELL those $L out as $US... (seriously, i'm looking at this going... DUH... i know SOMEONE else has figured this out with all the extraordinary minds we have in SL and the econ forums!

everyone has demanded sinks and ways to pay LL in $L. there's no other way they would accept that happening without setting up the means to convert that into $US. i've been around long enough to know 3 things about the Lindens. 1. they are human and make mistakes 2. are in business to make $ and 3. are also bright enough to lay a foundation for future additions/changes to SL.

lol

This means LL buys L$(if you pay with L$ instead of tier.) They simply wont. Trust me.

Not long enough.
1. they are human and make mistakes and make mistakes again and again and again and again and again..... The problem is they are the owner. If a minister in my country makes an announcement like Robin's without ANY planned background. He/she would have to resign in 24 hours.

2. I agree, but they are ALWAYS(no exegeration) chosing the wrong ways to make USD. There are millions of other smart ways for them.

3. sure.

market at 306 looks at poll I think the ppl are speaking loud and clear on this one.

Based on the information available to me now, I voted "no." Sure, the move might be defensible if it's part of a broader package designed the stabilize the money supply; sensible monetary policy of course includes the government's power to print money. But LL hasn't given us much if any information about such a broader package. As it is, we're left with the impression that LL is reserving the right to add more Lindens to a marketplace that is already flooded with them.

Those of us who create content in SL spend many hours offline working on it, revising it, and more hours in-game testing it and responding to customer-service calls. It's fun but it's also work. We may not make our living off SL, but we do respond to incentives, and on the margin we'll tend to do less if we get smaller rewards for our work.

Oh, damn, I just thought of something. If they will be making direct profits off of their own sales of L$, wouldn't that mean that now they will actually have a direct interest in the market value of L$ (higher price of L$, more money they themselves can make), as opposed to just a trying-to-appease-their-bitchy-customers interest? Maybe this will actually turn out well in the end, since Lindens do have enormous controll in regards to how the market performs, at least in regards to sinks, fees, etc.