Dreamland SIMS

Ok, I know I'm not allowed to mention names, so I'll say this.
I have a question about the Dreamland SIMS, that are owned by the biggest land seller in all of Second Life.
First, do you actually OWN the land? How does it work the tier is payed to her, and not to LL? Was it a pre-arranged deal? And what happens if your in the middle of tier (say you own 512M, and you go to 1024, but only 512M is in Dreamland, how do they split it? (512M is $5, 1024 is $.

Pretty much, you're leasing the Dreamland land. Any 'tier' you pay to her is a totally different ballgame than what you're paying to LL. So, in that example of 1024 total meters, with 512 split equally between Dreamland and Mainland, you pay a tier of 512, which is $5, to Linden Labs which comes out of the same pay account as your monthly SL fee. As for the 512 on Dreamland. You pay them whatever they tell you to.
Which is essentially where their profit margin comes from. Charging at or over what SL charges for tier. And compounded with the fact that that sim is being payed as a full sim, which has a considerable discount over the smaller parcels.

And meanwhile, the land you 'buy' in Dreamland remains under their control, and your 'ownership' can be revoked whenever. Essentially its a rental deal, with the option to transfer your rent to someone else should you like.

I "own" land in Provincetown, Dreamland. How it works is a little more complicated than on the mainland, but not too much. First off, the sim owner can only transfer the land to a group, so you have to create a group before you purchase the land. When you pay the "owner" of the land, a representative of Dreamland has to transfer the land to your group.

Linden Labs only recognises the owner of the sim as the land owner. Your agreement is with the sim owner, not Linden Labs. So you don't pay any tier to Linden Labs on your land in Dreamland. You do, however, pay tier to the sim owner through Pay Pal. The sim owner pays Linden Labs tier on the whole sim and you pay her tier on the land your group holds. For a comparison of tier prices, go to AnsheChung.com.

There are a few good things about owning land in Dreamland. The zoning is pretty strict, the landscapes are often beautiful, and Anshe Chung holds regular meetings to keep the residents aware of changes coming down the road. You also become a member of the Dreamland group and have access to help from Dreamland represenatives (called Angels) almost any time of day or night. Prices are a little lower than comparable plots on the mainland too.

The thing you have to remember is you are making an agreement with an individual, and that Linden Labs does not involve itself in business disputes. Also, it is a little more complicated to sell your land in Dreamland, because you need a third party (Dreamland) to coordinate the transaction. So, talk to some residents before you buy any land in any privately owned sim. Ask them about their experiences. I have had great service in the 7 months I've had my house in Dreamland. Stop by and visit it, it's the white house in the southwest corner of Provincetown.

That transaction is more properly called a 'lease transfer', since you can not actually sell the land.

-Ghoti

But... do we ever *own* land?

Even buying land from Linden Labs, you still owe them monthly tier *somewhat* proportionate to the amount of land you own. And, technically, they have full power to revoke that land from you without really owing you more than a pat in the back.
.....
And then there's the zoning issue - which is nonexistant in mainland.

I don't consider it a bad thing if the Dreamland owner or any other private sim land rental/sales business is making money off of it, since I do believe they are creating value with their service. We decide if it's actually worth the price tag.

Its renting, despite what she says. Its renting with a hefty deposit. Calling it buying just confuses people.

I highly reccomend Hiro Queso, 1 rental fee, no deposit for "buying" the land, the same rights (as far as I'm aware).

To clarify Levi..

Dream Land:
When you "buy" land from Dreamland, you pay an up front fee for the land itself, and then a monthly tier to "the owner". She deeds the land to a group of your choice, so officers can make all the changes. However, the land itself is not actually transfered, as its impossible to transfer parcels of island land.

Hiro Queso:
Same as dreamland but no up front "purchase" fee, and its called renting.

You rent a plot, pay your rent to Hiro, Hiro deeds it to group for you, so officers can make changes.

Linden Labs
Buying land from Linden Labs is the only true was to "own" land, and theres some disputes about this. You pay for your tier on the website with a credit card, debit card or paypal (I think). The land is yours. Your name is on the parcel.

No we never do actually own land but I look at it as leasing from LL or sub leasing from an individual

Yes I think thats about right.

I got my head around that concept early on in SL. It is quite similar to English (UK) Leasehold on property and land.

Essentially you pay a lease payment to the landlord or owner on a monthly/yearly basis and can transfer the leasehold backwards and forwards to new owners, either at a premium (a sale to another SL resident) or by give up (free trasfer back to Linden)

I think it is fair to say that land ownership in SL is akin to buying your own computing power in VR measured by prim count, and subject to SL's terms and conditions of use. A bit like renting a website or defined space perhaps

I cannot comment on Dreamland ownership but I do agree with anothers posters comments the sims are pleasing on the eye, but maybe subject to additional restrictions in exchange for other added services

I don't know exactly how Dreamland works their land deals, but I know from the comments of their clients that by and large Anshe's clients are very happy with the deal.

I do know how we accomplish pretty much the same thing in Elf Clan.

Since our goal is not to earn a profit, we don't charge people for the initial land purchase (although we could if we so desired, and that would help cut down on sim setup costs). But charging for land somewhat lessens one reason people have to live on islands: reduced cost.

There are many reasons to live on island sims:

1) Griefer control. If a griefer messes with an island, you don't have to beat your head against a brick wall trying to get Linden Lab to handle it. Sim owner or authorized monitors boot the jerk and he never gets back in again. This often can be done instantly, rather than waiting for a Linden to show up. In the case of Elf Clan, we've set up an Elite Guard. If they're around, the griefer is booted immediately.

2) Lower price. Since an island sim is rented in bulk ($195 a month), smaller parcels can be rented out for less than SL tier fees (depending on the desires of the island owner). But in actuality, sometimes people are willing to pay more for island land because...

3) Moderated, zoned environment. No clubs. No shopping malls in front of your front door (except in business-zoned areas on the sim). Our elven lands are set strict PG, which surprisingly a lot of people really like. We don't allow "boom boxes" or obscene language/gestures/abbreviations. As a result, we offer a very peaceful environment free of much of the harassment present on mainland. Of course, we also have High-Fantasy theme. Different islands have other themes, depending on the intent of the island owner.

4) Immediate response to user needs. Have you ever tried to get a Linden to allow you to do something special with mainland? Quite often island owners are very responsive to individual user desires when it comes to land, and island land usually has maximum flexibility parameters set. (I used to live on a piece of mainland that had absolutely no ability to alter the terrain).

5) You don't have to worry about island rented land messing with your tier if you're a premium member. Has no effect on your tier at all.

6) You don't have to have a Premium membership. You can "own" land even with a freebie Basic account. This alone can save users $72 to $120 a year.

The "negative" aspect is that you do not own the land and yes, if the owner decides to close down an island, you're up a creek without a paddle. However, that doesn't happen all that often. In the case of our lands, even if that happened-- people didn't buy the land in the first place, so they'd be out nothing. It is also very seldom that anyone is "booted" from private islands. The only time that may happen is if they break sim rules and cop an attitude, thereby ticking off the landlord. That's never a good idea. Those rules are there for a reason: to maintain the peace and harmony of the community.

Is this concept popular? In Elf Clan, we have four sims that we've set up, and we rent land as fast as it's available. I don't know how DreamLand or others do, but they must be popular as well for Anshe to keep setting them up. I do admit that one reason people rent land from us is because of the theme and the incredible beauty of builds it inspires. But I spoke to a land renter one day who was very enthusiastic about his private norm community, because he never had problems with griefers. He had nothing but high praise for his landlord. So this is a very popular way of land ownership; even though you're technically just renting, you're still considered by the community to be an "owner", or more accurately, "resident".

Dream Land, Hiro Queso, and Linden labs. Hmm. I'm pretty sure there are a couple of more players in the real estate arena. The OP could have alleviated himself of any concerns over forum violations by asking what the difference is between the mainland and private island estates. You can simplify it down to: on the mainland deeding is possible but zoning is not; on an island estate zoning is possible but deeding is not.

I agree with those who have pointed out that you are unable to buy land from anyone, you are paying a monthly fee anyway you go about it. I think calling it "land" creates a different image. I think of the pay structure as being similar to high definiton cable service. You can buy a box or rent one from the cable company, one costs a chunk of cash up front while that cost is added to the monthly fee and costs more over time when the box is leased. Either way you have to pay a monthly fee for the signal. Even if you own your own box, you can't use it without the signal. If you drop your service, you'll have to find someone to sell the box to in order to regain your initial investment.

There are other differences, of course, but I find it more realistic to compare it to something like a cable signal or a cell phone which are services requiring equipment to use them rather than trying to apply concepts associated with RL land ownership to it. One way or another you are paying LL for a specified amount of prims to play with as you like but you need to have a spot to put them down.

The same is really true on the mainland as well. You're renting the land from SL, you get your deposit back when you sell it, but you don't have any equity value in the land. If you quit paying the tier, I don't think LL will sell it and pay you back the difference from your "back taxes".

I'm renting from Alliez and Tony. They do a good job, but they don't "zone" the land the way Anshe does. That's her value added, and what leads people to accept the hefty deposit. If Anshe's zoning rules were just a little different, I'd be tempted to give her a shot.

By the way, at least some land sellers on the mainland will rent instead of selling. They keep the land and pay the teir, and you pay them... usually somewhat less than the Linden teir, but still more than enough for them to make a profit. There's no reason they couldn't implement zoning as well, but I don't know any that do.

The posts concerning Dreamland (including my own) have left out the fact that you can rent a plot if you don't want to "buy" it. AnsheChung Co. allows the rental of any of it's properties in Dreamland.

Lets face it people,in SL..NO ONE owns land. Whether You buy it from Lindons..Anshe..Tom Dick or Harry, if you don't pay the tier fees,,its taken back.


Its no different than if you bought a piece of property or home in real life, if you dont pay the mortgage..taxes etc..those that hold the mortagage etc..come and take it back.

Even renting..whether real or SL..if you dont pay your rent....you are evicted

Sheesh..not rocket science here *smiles*

Have a great day

I have never ever understood the "buy" aspect of the dreamland gig. I don't get it.

Maybe I am missing some bonus to giving my money upfront to buy it AND paying tier to dreamland versus just paying tier to dreamland and not buying?

I have got to be missing something, any ideas?

Depends on how long you think you're going to keep the land. Rental rates are significantly higher than tier.

you 'own' mainland land, the exact same way you own a house RL, the local municipality gets their cut every month, but you are basically free to do what you will on your land within some basic guidelines. Stop paying your property tax however, and you won't live there long.

you don't 'own' your island land, in the same way you don't own an apartment RL, you can hang what you want on the walls, but try and put in an addition to your living room and you'll probably end up with a court date. If yer land-lord sells the building, chances are you are SOL as well, and you are going to have to move.

the *ONLY* real confusion is that some of the greedier island owners 'transfer' their own setup costs to their residents by 'selling' them the right to become a renter. Theres really no reason to ever do that though as *PLENTY* of island estate owners rent land out for roughly the same prices, without the up-front charges, and without any bogus 'selling' deal...

the 'selling' island land idea gets *REALLY* messy should the actual island owner sell it themselves later, or even just decide they don't like you, or that your house would make a better shopping mall, because chances are whatever you paid on that land, is gone, and you have no recourse, at all.

There are, however I am familiar with DLs ways, and have (and currently am) using LL and Hiro Queso. I just gave examples of what I know.



Well, that is a point of discussion. Other than buying/renting/leasing from LL, there is no way to put YOUR name on the owners list, only a group that you're in.

Not in a lot of cases, Azure Islands especially put a claim on their website, and I quote..

My local municipality isn't getting 1/6th of my property value in taxes every month, and if I do stop paying taxes they may have to take me to court and get a judgement, and in Texas at least it's REALLY hard to seize a homestead. Plus, lots of places, if I owe less than they get from selling the land off I get it back.

Heck, around here it's easier for a homeowner's association to seize my house for not payong association fees than for the state to take it for nonpayment of taxes.

What'd you get if LL "seized" Lusk or Perry for non-payment?

What's the difference between my land being owned by "Avalon Lagoon", of which "Argent Stonecutter" is the only officer, and it being owned by "Argent Stonecutter"? Seriously?