Second Life Forums Archive - Feature Proposal: a specialized stock market

Cthulu Calamari

Extra "H" is copyrighted.

Join date: 14 Mar 2006

Posts: 14

03-18-2006 16:04

Moderators, I'm sorry -- I meant to put this into the feature proposal area.

An in-game stock market is imho a great way to stimulate the SL economy and increase developer incentive while removing the benefits of installing camp chairs -- more money (and account stipends) can be pooled into a fully in-game funding market which directly helps companies grow, and ensures incentive to produce meaningful content. Of course, the design is not a trivial task, but I humbly submit the belief that the concept is very doable.

My own rough-draft scenario (as my less-than-professional skills and understanding would come up with) goes something like this: To ensure that this money is used effectively, companies could be partially managed in-game, where each company has an inventory and L$ account with a permission system similar to land-ownership, where anyone can add funds or items to the inventory and/or finances, but once an item is transfered, copied, or bought with the company money, it stays property of the company and the company owner. The spending/buying/trading history of the company is stored as the company's public record. Un order to gain the trust of investors, you already need to have some clout as a business and show that there aren't any "shady" transactions in your public record (this also ensures that if someone does attempt to cash out on the company, (say a decrease in worth/quantity of objects/money/stock or some combination is greater than a set limit, then a lock is placed until stock owners and/or Linden can take action and/or approve ... and limits to investing can also be placed ... this way, only two new abuses would be added to the list, and both would also be on public record. Additional benefits could be given for companies that increase profits (with various methods to test profit increase, such as the number of differing individuals trading with the company/etc -- these benefits could be decreased cost of land, increase in prim count per land, etc ... )
As the company finances increase or decrease in value, a percentage of the changes would go directly/automatically into stock worth. Furthermore, limits and permissions to amounts by sub-owners/co-owners could be options available to the original owners -- essentially, it's a mix between the SL "group", the standard "guild" found in MMORPGs, and the stock market.

That's my basic, ugly, buggy rough draft idea. I'm sure there are more effective and safer ideas, but overall, it would put a lot more control, incentive, and productivity into the hands of developers and business-owners, and provide a beneficial pooling area of Lindens from the SL economy as a whole.

ReserveBank Division

Senior Member

Join date: 16 Jan 2006

Posts: 1,408

03-18-2006 17:14

Good Luck... These Socialists don't like Capitalist Ideas...

_____________________

Jonas Pierterson

Dark Harlequin

Join date: 27 Dec 2005

Posts: 3,660

03-18-2006 17:17

As long as it doesn't affect my stipend , my groups, or my land, go for it.

_____________________

Good freebies here and here

I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy

Shaun Altman

Fund Manager

Join date: 11 Dec 2004

Posts: 1,011

03-18-2006 20:48

Would I invest/register for another exchange besides MSE?

Maybe, it would depend on what's being traded. I voted for yes though.

_____________________

Regards,
Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Metaverse Investment Fund

Cthulu Calamari

Extra "H" is copyrighted.

Join date: 14 Mar 2006

Posts: 14

03-18-2006 23:05

Why would it alter your stipend , groups, or land?

It is merely another way for you to invest your lindens, your stipends, your earnings, etc in a way that boosts the economy and developer incentive ...

... But I posted this whole thread in the wrong place, so if it's not deleted, yay?

Green Panther

Registered User

Join date: 27 Apr 2005

Posts: 64

Excellent

03-19-2006 05:22

From: Cthulu Calamari

Sorry -- I meant to put this into the feature proposal area ... nearest moderator, please delete ? I will repost it properly, shortly -- I just need to update the feature proposal.

An in-game stock market is imho a great way to stimulate the SL economy and increase developer incentive while removing the benefits of installing camp chairs -- more money (and account stipends) can be pooled into a fully in-game funding market which directly helps companies grow, and ensures incentive to produce meaningful content. Of course, the design is not a trivial task, but I humbly submit the belief that the concept is very doable.

My own rough-draft scenario (as my less-than-professional skills and understanding would come up with) goes something like this: To ensure that this money is used effectively, companies could be partially managed in-game, where each company has an inventory and L$ account with a permission system similar to land-ownership, where anyone can add funds or items to the inventory and/or finances, but once an item is transfered, copied, or bought with the company money, it stays property of the company and the company owner. The spending/buying/trading history of the company is stored as the company's public record. Un order to gain the trust of investors, you already need to have some clout as a business and show that there aren't any "shady" transactions in your public record (this also ensures that if someone does attempt to cash out on the company, (say a decrease in worth/quantity of objects/money/stock or some combination is greater than a set limit, then a lock is placed until stock owners and/or Linden can take action and/or approve ... and limits to investing can also be placed ... this way, only two new abuses would be added to the list, and both would also be on public record. Additional benefits could be given for companies that increase profits (with various methods to test profit increase, such as the number of differing individuals trading with the company/etc -- these benefits could be decreased cost of land, increase in prim count per land, etc ... )
As the company finances increase or decrease in value, a percentage of the changes would go directly/automatically into stock worth. Furthermore, limits and permissions to amounts by sub-owners/co-owners could be options available to the original owners -- essentially, it's a mix between the SL "group", the standard "guild" found in MMORPGs, and the stock market.

That's my basic, ugly, buggy rough draft idea. I'm sure there are more effective and safer ideas, but overall, it would put a lot more control, incentive, and productivity into the hands of developers and business-owners, and provide a beneficial pooling area of Lindens from the SL economy as a whole.

Good idea, extremely well crafted stated. IMHO the implementation of the basic idea is long overdue.

GiveMe Liberty

Registered User

Join date: 18 Nov 2005

Posts: 18

03-19-2006 11:24

Been there, done that.

Shaun Altman and the MSE.

Nobody got/is very interested when push came to shove.

Cthulu Calamari

Extra "H" is copyrighted.

Join date: 14 Mar 2006

Posts: 14

03-19-2006 14:55

I don't really care about whether my name is attached to it ... in fact, considering my login name, I'd be happier if it wasn't

All I'm saying is that we need MORE open markets -- not just company shares, although that is the most obvious example -- and since the MSE exists in the first place, I can safely assume I'm not the only one that thinks so ... but for all the efforts Shaun Altman made, I've never heard of the MSE until now (Sorry! no offense - the MSE looks fantastic -- I'm just a newcomer to SL and the first things I've gotten smacked in the face with are nice houses, gambling sites, avatar accessories, and mature content. I couldn't find much interest in SL until I was able to filter out its frontline commercial sector.) -- so I would think about asking SL for their support in the project.

Moreover, this sort of thing has always needed an extensive amount of networking, advertisement, and patience -- it's one of those things that some individuals will glaze their eyes over without even thinking -- After a brief glance at what Altman (and team?) has done so far, I think it's impressive -- but I'd like to see it advertised more prevalently, or even built into the game -- Without some mechanism that smacks you in the face with obvious placement, simplicity, and aesthetics, I don't think you can ever expect to see the same numbers in users that other third-party systems can (like SL-Exchange) simply because the payoff of buying and selling isn't nearly as instant.

Even though I haven't finished investigating the MSE (I will soon, though. Why are there no recent sell orders?), I'd be willing to advertise it to the extent of hosting a few stock tickers and MSE ads on my land (although I'll have to take back a few square meters I'm splitting with a friend

). I'll even tell people ... heck, there's a few individuals on slashdot's gaming news section with a soft spot for SL-related news ... someone could shoot them a few bits of information -- it'd be pretty impressive to see what happens if the MSE site got slashdotted.

My point: I think markets should be prevalent, but I'm also against the idea of competing markets -- it's hard enough for one to get off the ground with such a small population (yes, less than a million is a small population!). Built-in functionality, heavy advertisement, and networking are but three ways for such things to be prevalent, and I'm not convinced that those options have been fully investigated.

Feature Proposal: a specialized stock market
Cthulu Calamari Extra "H" is copyrighted. Join date: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 14	03-18-2006 16:04 Moderators, I'm sorry -- I meant to put this into the feature proposal area. An in-game stock market is imho a great way to stimulate the SL economy and increase developer incentive while removing the benefits of installing camp chairs -- more money (and account stipends) can be pooled into a fully in-game funding market which directly helps companies grow, and ensures incentive to produce meaningful content. Of course, the design is not a trivial task, but I humbly submit the belief that the concept is very doable. My own rough-draft scenario (as my less-than-professional skills and understanding would come up with) goes something like this: To ensure that this money is used effectively, companies could be partially managed in-game, where each company has an inventory and L$ account with a permission system similar to land-ownership, where anyone can add funds or items to the inventory and/or finances, but once an item is transfered, copied, or bought with the company money, it stays property of the company and the company owner. The spending/buying/trading history of the company is stored as the company's public record. Un order to gain the trust of investors, you already need to have some clout as a business and show that there aren't any "shady" transactions in your public record (this also ensures that if someone does attempt to cash out on the company, (say a decrease in worth/quantity of objects/money/stock or some combination is greater than a set limit, then a lock is placed until stock owners and/or Linden can take action and/or approve ... and limits to investing can also be placed ... this way, only two new abuses would be added to the list, and both would also be on public record. Additional benefits could be given for companies that increase profits (with various methods to test profit increase, such as the number of differing individuals trading with the company/etc -- these benefits could be decreased cost of land, increase in prim count per land, etc ... ) As the company finances increase or decrease in value, a percentage of the changes would go directly/automatically into stock worth. Furthermore, limits and permissions to amounts by sub-owners/co-owners could be options available to the original owners -- essentially, it's a mix between the SL "group", the standard "guild" found in MMORPGs, and the stock market. That's my basic, ugly, buggy rough draft idea. I'm sure there are more effective and safer ideas, but overall, it would put a lot more control, incentive, and productivity into the hands of developers and business-owners, and provide a beneficial pooling area of Lindens from the SL economy as a whole.
ReserveBank Division Senior Member Join date: 16 Jan 2006 Posts: 1,408	03-18-2006 17:14 Good Luck... These Socialists don't like Capitalist Ideas... _____________________
Jonas Pierterson Dark Harlequin Join date: 27 Dec 2005 Posts: 3,660	03-18-2006 17:17 As long as it doesn't affect my stipend , my groups, or my land, go for it. _____________________ Good freebies here and here I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Shaun Altman Fund Manager Join date: 11 Dec 2004 Posts: 1,011	03-18-2006 20:48 Would I invest/register for another exchange besides MSE? Maybe, it would depend on what's being traded. I voted for yes though. _____________________ Regards, Shaun Altman Fund Manager Metaverse Investment Fund
Cthulu Calamari Extra "H" is copyrighted. Join date: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 14	03-18-2006 23:05 Why would it alter your stipend , groups, or land? It is merely another way for you to invest your lindens, your stipends, your earnings, etc in a way that boosts the economy and developer incentive ... ... But I posted this whole thread in the wrong place, so if it's not deleted, yay?
Green Panther Registered User Join date: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 64	Excellent 03-19-2006 05:22 From: Cthulu Calamari Sorry -- I meant to put this into the feature proposal area ... nearest moderator, please delete ? I will repost it properly, shortly -- I just need to update the feature proposal. An in-game stock market is imho a great way to stimulate the SL economy and increase developer incentive while removing the benefits of installing camp chairs -- more money (and account stipends) can be pooled into a fully in-game funding market which directly helps companies grow, and ensures incentive to produce meaningful content. Of course, the design is not a trivial task, but I humbly submit the belief that the concept is very doable. My own rough-draft scenario (as my less-than-professional skills and understanding would come up with) goes something like this: To ensure that this money is used effectively, companies could be partially managed in-game, where each company has an inventory and L$ account with a permission system similar to land-ownership, where anyone can add funds or items to the inventory and/or finances, but once an item is transfered, copied, or bought with the company money, it stays property of the company and the company owner. The spending/buying/trading history of the company is stored as the company's public record. Un order to gain the trust of investors, you already need to have some clout as a business and show that there aren't any "shady" transactions in your public record (this also ensures that if someone does attempt to cash out on the company, (say a decrease in worth/quantity of objects/money/stock or some combination is greater than a set limit, then a lock is placed until stock owners and/or Linden can take action and/or approve ... and limits to investing can also be placed ... this way, only two new abuses would be added to the list, and both would also be on public record. Additional benefits could be given for companies that increase profits (with various methods to test profit increase, such as the number of differing individuals trading with the company/etc -- these benefits could be decreased cost of land, increase in prim count per land, etc ... ) As the company finances increase or decrease in value, a percentage of the changes would go directly/automatically into stock worth. Furthermore, limits and permissions to amounts by sub-owners/co-owners could be options available to the original owners -- essentially, it's a mix between the SL "group", the standard "guild" found in MMORPGs, and the stock market. That's my basic, ugly, buggy rough draft idea. I'm sure there are more effective and safer ideas, but overall, it would put a lot more control, incentive, and productivity into the hands of developers and business-owners, and provide a beneficial pooling area of Lindens from the SL economy as a whole. Good idea, extremely well crafted stated. IMHO the implementation of the basic idea is long overdue.
GiveMe Liberty Registered User Join date: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 18	03-19-2006 11:24 Been there, done that. Shaun Altman and the MSE. Nobody got/is very interested when push came to shove.
Cthulu Calamari Extra "H" is copyrighted. Join date: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 14	03-19-2006 14:55 I don't really care about whether my name is attached to it ... in fact, considering my login name, I'd be happier if it wasn't All I'm saying is that we need MORE open markets -- not just company shares, although that is the most obvious example -- and since the MSE exists in the first place, I can safely assume I'm not the only one that thinks so ... but for all the efforts Shaun Altman made, I've never heard of the MSE until now (Sorry! no offense - the MSE looks fantastic -- I'm just a newcomer to SL and the first things I've gotten smacked in the face with are nice houses, gambling sites, avatar accessories, and mature content. I couldn't find much interest in SL until I was able to filter out its frontline commercial sector.) -- so I would think about asking SL for their support in the project. Moreover, this sort of thing has always needed an extensive amount of networking, advertisement, and patience -- it's one of those things that some individuals will glaze their eyes over without even thinking -- After a brief glance at what Altman (and team?) has done so far, I think it's impressive -- but I'd like to see it advertised more prevalently, or even built into the game -- Without some mechanism that smacks you in the face with obvious placement, simplicity, and aesthetics, I don't think you can ever expect to see the same numbers in users that other third-party systems can (like SL-Exchange) simply because the payoff of buying and selling isn't nearly as instant. Even though I haven't finished investigating the MSE (I will soon, though. Why are there no recent sell orders?), I'd be willing to advertise it to the extent of hosting a few stock tickers and MSE ads on my land (although I'll have to take back a few square meters I'm splitting with a friend ). I'll even tell people ... heck, there's a few individuals on slashdot's gaming news section with a soft spot for SL-related news ... someone could shoot them a few bits of information -- it'd be pretty impressive to see what happens if the MSE site got slashdotted. My point: I think markets should be prevalent, but I'm also against the idea of competing markets -- it's hard enough for one to get off the ground with such a small population (yes, less than a million is a small population!). Built-in functionality, heavy advertisement, and networking are but three ways for such things to be prevalent, and I'm not convinced that those options have been fully investigated.

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Feature Proposal: a specialized stock market