Second Life Forums Archive - The $L in the news

Surreal Farber

Cat Herder

Join date: 5 Feb 2004

Posts: 2,059

12-30-2005 12:35

Not sure if this has been around yet...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/25/3

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Surreal

Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004

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Ricky Zamboni

Private citizen

Join date: 4 Jun 2004

Posts: 1,080

12-30-2005 13:34

Fascinating article.

Doli McGettigan

Registered User

Join date: 7 Jul 2005

Posts: 15

12-30-2005 13:52

What a coincidence. There was an article on SomethingAwful about the Escapist today. That was loads of fun!

Frank Lardner

Cultural Explorer

Join date: 30 Sep 2005

Posts: 409

Escrow agents and freedom

12-30-2005 15:01

Two things about the article's discussion of Eve Online struck me on first reading:

the use of escrow agents to take the place of game mechanics for stock exchange
the suggestion that the game operator's "hands off" policy fosters freedom and innovation

The first left open the reliability of the escrow agents, which apparently has been accepted for transient transactions (exchanges of stock rather than long-term value holding)

The second point suggested that LL's intercession to offer a monetary exchange in competition with GOM will discourage player innovation not only in monetary exchange but in other areas that LL might covet.

I also noted that they emphasized that in Eve Online, a great deal of the game play is not practical without social cooperation. In contrast with LL, where a great deal of the game can be appreciated "solo." The former has generated complex social structures, while in SL, we've noted a struggle to develop structures more complex than landlord-tenant.

The author of this piece is a respected author and scholar in the field of virtual worlds and the evolution of social structures in them. A thoughtful and insightful piece worth anyone's time reading at least twice.

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Frank Lardner

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Desmond Shang

Guvnah of Caledon

Join date: 14 Mar 2005

Posts: 5,250

12-30-2005 16:08

Good article.

I'm not terribly worried about SL's 'small town' degree of complexity right now.

While EVE seems to have more cooperative structures, it appears that they are in response to artificial pressures built into the game.

What beneficial changes in SL should be made?

I would hope I don't ever need a West Trade Imports fighter detachment escort to get me to an SLExchange banking terminal.

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Zippity Neutra

What'd I miss?

Join date: 29 Sep 2004

Posts: 191

Yum!

12-30-2005 16:36

I'll need his book when it comes out, and I'm going to have to set aside time to peruse their back issues. Remember the article When Gamers Breed?
These folks are doing some good stuff.

I just subscribed to the Escapist, and while I value the accessibility of their PDF/web distribution I kinda find myself wishing for a glossy printed version because the design and layout is really very nice. Though I appreciate not having another US$30 annual subscription...

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Aliasi Stonebender

Return of Catbread

Join date: 30 Jan 2005

Posts: 1,858

12-30-2005 17:16

From: Frank Lardner

I also noted that they emphasized that in Eve Online, a great deal of the game play is not practical without social cooperation. In contrast with LL, where a great deal of the game can be appreciated "solo." The former has generated complex social structures, while in SL, we've noted a struggle to develop structures more complex than landlord-tenant.

On the other hand... games that force socialization in that way tend to have limited appeal. Look at Everquest, where grouping was nigh-on manditory... and it pretty much lost most of its players to WoW, which allows far more solo play. (As well as being generally easier to use in most respects.)

In general the most popular MMOGs have been those that reward group play (the carrot) not make solo play impossible and unfun (a stick).

While observations from these games have only limited applicability to Second Life, I'm glad that SL is far more the carrot (just like real life, networking helps you!) as opposed to a stick. I'm not even sure what kind of stick you could use in SL.

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Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff

Flavian Molinari

Broadly Offensive Content

Join date: 1 Aug 2004

Posts: 662

12-30-2005 19:51

I've played both Eve and SL for over a year. The dynamics are so different in these games that it is really unfare to compare them on any level.

I did like the article though. I do think SL could take some lessons from Eve or RL to help no talent or casual players feel like they could earn some money. There used to be a way to grind out L$ with the rating system. Even though a lot of people felt it was a stupid system it did help the casual player earn L$ to spend in game. The old system also generated a lot of dwell for clubs and events because it encouraged people to congregate. L$ earned in game eventually funnel into talented players accounts. I personally don't know anybody that made enough L$ ginding out rates to sell them it on GOM. I believe most of it stayed in game. Oh well.

Sorry for the thread jack.

Cheyenne Marquez

Registered User

Join date: 19 Sep 2005

Posts: 940

12-30-2005 20:40

Its a fun article but the writer(s) of the article appear to be much more knowledgeable, and involved to a much greater extent with EVE, than they are knowledgeable or involved with SL.

IMO, they could have hinted at the fact that SL is much more in its infancy, and has a LOT more potential for the development of an economy of the like they speak of.

Telling is the fact that they never even mentioned the Metaverse Stock Exchange (MSE) and to a greater degree Ginko.

In fact, I sincerely believe that Ginko has the greatest potential. I believe if they offered an IPO and allowed the bank to be publically owned, it would become a huge success because SL residents are crying for a place to park their money were they could earn interest on it as opposed to sitting in their account doing nothing.

In any event, its a good EVE article but a lot more could have been said about SL and its untapped potential.

Ricky Shaftoe

Owner, "Rickymations"

Join date: 27 May 2005

Posts: 366

12-31-2005 16:26

I played EVE in its beta and after launch, and I doubt I'll ever go back. As the article indicates, EVE is not very solo-friendly. SL, by contrast, offers countless opportunities for a sole proprietor. More generally, I didn't find EVE to be all that much fun. To be sure, the article's description of that corporation's success is fascinating. But the game itself never did it for me.

The $L in the news
Surreal Farber Cat Herder Join date: 5 Feb 2004 Posts: 2,059	12-30-2005 12:35 Not sure if this has been around yet... http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/25/3 _____________________ Surreal Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004 Come see our whole line of clothing, animations and accessories in Chaos (37, 198, 43)
Ricky Zamboni Private citizen Join date: 4 Jun 2004 Posts: 1,080	12-30-2005 13:34 Fascinating article.
Doli McGettigan Registered User Join date: 7 Jul 2005 Posts: 15	12-30-2005 13:52 What a coincidence. There was an article on SomethingAwful about the Escapist today. That was loads of fun!
Frank Lardner Cultural Explorer Join date: 30 Sep 2005 Posts: 409	Escrow agents and freedom 12-30-2005 15:01 Two things about the article's discussion of Eve Online struck me on first reading: the use of escrow agents to take the place of game mechanics for stock exchange the suggestion that the game operator's "hands off" policy fosters freedom and innovation The first left open the reliability of the escrow agents, which apparently has been accepted for transient transactions (exchanges of stock rather than long-term value holding) The second point suggested that LL's intercession to offer a monetary exchange in competition with GOM will discourage player innovation not only in monetary exchange but in other areas that LL might covet. I also noted that they emphasized that in Eve Online, a great deal of the game play is not practical without social cooperation. In contrast with LL, where a great deal of the game can be appreciated "solo." The former has generated complex social structures, while in SL, we've noted a struggle to develop structures more complex than landlord-tenant. The author of this piece is a respected author and scholar in the field of virtual worlds and the evolution of social structures in them. A thoughtful and insightful piece worth anyone's time reading at least twice. _____________________ Frank Lardner * Join the "Law Society of Second Life" -- dedicated to the objective study and discussion of SL ways of governance, contracting and dispute resolution. * Group Forum at: this link.
Desmond Shang Guvnah of Caledon Join date: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 5,250	12-30-2005 16:08 Good article. I'm not terribly worried about SL's 'small town' degree of complexity right now. While EVE seems to have more cooperative structures, it appears that they are in response to artificial pressures built into the game. What beneficial changes in SL should be made? I would hope I don't ever need a West Trade Imports fighter detachment escort to get me to an SLExchange banking terminal. _____________________ Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon!
Zippity Neutra What'd I miss? Join date: 29 Sep 2004 Posts: 191	Yum! 12-30-2005 16:36 I'll need his book when it comes out, and I'm going to have to set aside time to peruse their back issues. Remember the article When Gamers Breed? These folks are doing some good stuff. I just subscribed to the Escapist, and while I value the accessibility of their PDF/web distribution I kinda find myself wishing for a glossy printed version because the design and layout is really very nice. Though I appreciate not having another US$30 annual subscription... _____________________ Am I random enough yet?
Aliasi Stonebender Return of Catbread Join date: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 1,858	12-30-2005 17:16 From: Frank Lardner I also noted that they emphasized that in Eve Online, a great deal of the game play is not practical without social cooperation. In contrast with LL, where a great deal of the game can be appreciated "solo." The former has generated complex social structures, while in SL, we've noted a struggle to develop structures more complex than landlord-tenant. On the other hand... games that force socialization in that way tend to have limited appeal. Look at Everquest, where grouping was nigh-on manditory... and it pretty much lost most of its players to WoW, which allows far more solo play. (As well as being generally easier to use in most respects.) In general the most popular MMOGs have been those that reward group play (the carrot) not make solo play impossible and unfun (a stick). While observations from these games have only limited applicability to Second Life, I'm glad that SL is far more the carrot (just like real life, networking helps you!) as opposed to a stick. I'm not even sure what kind of stick you could use in SL. _____________________ Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?” Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff
Flavian Molinari Broadly Offensive Content Join date: 1 Aug 2004 Posts: 662	12-30-2005 19:51 I've played both Eve and SL for over a year. The dynamics are so different in these games that it is really unfare to compare them on any level. I did like the article though. I do think SL could take some lessons from Eve or RL to help no talent or casual players feel like they could earn some money. There used to be a way to grind out L$ with the rating system. Even though a lot of people felt it was a stupid system it did help the casual player earn L$ to spend in game. The old system also generated a lot of dwell for clubs and events because it encouraged people to congregate. L$ earned in game eventually funnel into talented players accounts. I personally don't know anybody that made enough L$ ginding out rates to sell them it on GOM. I believe most of it stayed in game. Oh well. Sorry for the thread jack.
Cheyenne Marquez Registered User Join date: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 940	12-30-2005 20:40 Its a fun article but the writer(s) of the article appear to be much more knowledgeable, and involved to a much greater extent with EVE, than they are knowledgeable or involved with SL. IMO, they could have hinted at the fact that SL is much more in its infancy, and has a LOT more potential for the development of an economy of the like they speak of. Telling is the fact that they never even mentioned the Metaverse Stock Exchange (MSE) and to a greater degree Ginko. In fact, I sincerely believe that Ginko has the greatest potential. I believe if they offered an IPO and allowed the bank to be publically owned, it would become a huge success because SL residents are crying for a place to park their money were they could earn interest on it as opposed to sitting in their account doing nothing. In any event, its a good EVE article but a lot more could have been said about SL and its untapped potential.
Ricky Shaftoe Owner, "Rickymations" Join date: 27 May 2005 Posts: 366	12-31-2005 16:26 I played EVE in its beta and after launch, and I doubt I'll ever go back. As the article indicates, EVE is not very solo-friendly. SL, by contrast, offers countless opportunities for a sole proprietor. More generally, I didn't find EVE to be all that much fun. To be sure, the article's description of that corporation's success is fascinating. But the game itself never did it for me.

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