Second Life Forums Archive - PROPOSAL: Performance Resources by Parcel, not by Sim

Kenn Nilsson

AeonVox

Join date: 24 May 2005

Posts: 897

01-06-2006 13:17

http://secondlife.com/vote/index.php?get_id=891

It seems like a simple and logical proposal...especially with so many SLers always concerned about lag and performance...

...the proposal is to allocate sim resources on a sq. m. by sq. m. basis, much like prims are allocated. In this manner, all persons are made responsible for the server-side lag their own creations produce.

With such a system in line, all of us would be a little more careful about what we did with our land and take a little bit more time to learn about lag, what affects lag, and how we can minimize lag. Additionally, home-owners would not be devistated when a mega-club or giga-mall moves in next door with thousands of sensors, timers, and active listen scripts.

The best method of improving the world is to create incentives that make people want to do it...and I think parcel-allocated resources would do just that.

_____________________

--AeonVox--

Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms chasing ghosts, eating magic pills, and listening to repetitive, addictive, electronic music.

Torley Linden

Enlightenment!

Join date: 15 Sep 2004

Posts: 16,530

01-06-2006 13:20

I like the idea, but implementing it... won't it make very heavily-scripted vehicles act all funny if they go over a bunch of small parcels in a row that have already used up their allocation?

_____________________

Kenn Nilsson

AeonVox

Join date: 24 May 2005

Posts: 897

01-06-2006 13:24

Well...in a short answer...yes...it would...

...a vehicle travelling through parcels would experience much more lag variance than it does now...as it would be running through separate resource allocations on a parcel by parcel basis instead of a sim by sim basis...

...I see no reason, however, that the vehicle would do anything but "slow down" or "speed up" as it travelled through parcels (in heavily allocated parcels, the scripts are slow to respond, in light allocated parcels, the scripts are quick to respond).

_____________________

--AeonVox--

Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms chasing ghosts, eating magic pills, and listening to repetitive, addictive, electronic music.

Rickard Roentgen

Renaissance Punk

Join date: 4 Apr 2004

Posts: 1,869

01-06-2006 14:10

No, I have no need for this theory (and or feature).

_____________________

Ralph Doctorow

Registered User

Join date: 16 Oct 2005

Posts: 560

01-06-2006 14:50

From: Torley Torgeson

I like the idea, but implementing it... won't it make very heavily-scripted vehicles act all funny if they go over a bunch of small parcels in a row that have already used up their allocation?

Why wouldn't that be the same as the prims of a vehicle? As long as you're seated in it, they don't count IFAIK. Same for scripts.

That might have the odd effect that you could land but not take off. Of course that can easily be true in RL too.

Traxx Hathor

Architect

Join date: 11 Oct 2004

Posts: 422

01-06-2006 17:45

I support the intent of your proposal, Kenn.

One aspect of lag is being overlooked, but I don't know how significant it would be. Lag from the club in your example would not be confined to the parcel where the club is located.

Currently the lag from a club is not confined to the sim where the club is located. Avatars in an adjacent sim can lag your sim too. If I understand the current system correctly, it has to pass information about visible changes in sim A to avatars in adjacent sim B when these avatars are in range. So if you are in sim A the avatar in sim B is a child agent making update demands on your server.

The proposed change might be a huge improvement despite this shortcoming. I'd like to see some experiments set up in-world so we can see how it performs, and how land owners modify their behavior under a system like this.

Rickard Roentgen

Renaissance Punk

Join date: 4 Apr 2004

Posts: 1,869

01-06-2006 17:52

Personally I don't think scripts are currently a huge problem. When SL limited the sim fps they fixed most of the issues I'd seen. Also they updated the debug status display and it appears that most of the places that are suffering from lag (at least that I go to) are not suffering due to scripts. Scripts frequently do depend on consistant performance too and this would exacerbate that problem rather than help it. My scripts aren't doing well because there are two many scripts vs my scripts aren't doing well because I don't own enough land. I just don't think it would solve more problems then it would cause.

_____________________

Kenn Nilsson

AeonVox

Join date: 24 May 2005

Posts: 897

01-06-2006 18:38

I see the point of your rezzing across sims argument Traxx, but my main intent is in scripting responsibility, and such things are limited by sim as far as I can tell.

Rickard, the change of problem from "my scripts are slow because there are too many BAD scripts in other areas" to the change of problem to "whoops, I have purchased/created bad scripts and therefore and suffering my own lag" is EXACTLY what I'm going for.

Perhaps this idea is just a dream...but I have noticed many times in both myself and with friends/acquaintances that someone will move into a nice area...build up a store/house/etc. and keep everything responsible...and then...

...a month later someone moves in with bad scripting (and usually bad building...lol) and lags the whole sim. As time goes buy, these people may leave (and performance returns to normal even as other people fill the land) or the rest of the sim deserts...

...the point being that the system currently rewards irresponsible behavior by allowing you to suck from the resources of responsible people...and possibly piss them off enough to move and give you access to more same-sim land.

_____________________

--AeonVox--

Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms chasing ghosts, eating magic pills, and listening to repetitive, addictive, electronic music.

Jillian Callahan

Rotary-winged Neko Girl

Join date: 24 Jun 2004

Posts: 3,766

01-06-2006 21:34

This has been discussed before. Just FYI.

_____________________

Kenn Nilsson

AeonVox

Join date: 24 May 2005

Posts: 897

01-07-2006 12:32

I figured it had to have been discussed before...I just hadn't seen a vote proposal up on it...so thought I'd make one.

_____________________

--AeonVox--

Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms chasing ghosts, eating magic pills, and listening to repetitive, addictive, electronic music.

PROPOSAL: Performance Resources by Parcel, not by Sim
Kenn Nilsson AeonVox Join date: 24 May 2005 Posts: 897	01-06-2006 13:17 http://secondlife.com/vote/index.php?get_id=891 It seems like a simple and logical proposal...especially with so many SLers always concerned about lag and performance... ...the proposal is to allocate sim resources on a sq. m. by sq. m. basis, much like prims are allocated. In this manner, all persons are made responsible for the server-side lag their own creations produce. With such a system in line, all of us would be a little more careful about what we did with our land and take a little bit more time to learn about lag, what affects lag, and how we can minimize lag. Additionally, home-owners would not be devistated when a mega-club or giga-mall moves in next door with thousands of sensors, timers, and active listen scripts. The best method of improving the world is to create incentives that make people want to do it...and I think parcel-allocated resources would do just that. _____________________ --AeonVox-- Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms chasing ghosts, eating magic pills, and listening to repetitive, addictive, electronic music.
Torley Linden Enlightenment! Join date: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 16,530	01-06-2006 13:20 I like the idea, but implementing it... won't it make very heavily-scripted vehicles act all funny if they go over a bunch of small parcels in a row that have already used up their allocation? _____________________
Kenn Nilsson AeonVox Join date: 24 May 2005 Posts: 897	01-06-2006 13:24 Well...in a short answer...yes...it would... ...a vehicle travelling through parcels would experience much more lag variance than it does now...as it would be running through separate resource allocations on a parcel by parcel basis instead of a sim by sim basis... ...I see no reason, however, that the vehicle would do anything but "slow down" or "speed up" as it travelled through parcels (in heavily allocated parcels, the scripts are slow to respond, in light allocated parcels, the scripts are quick to respond). _____________________ --AeonVox-- Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms chasing ghosts, eating magic pills, and listening to repetitive, addictive, electronic music.
Rickard Roentgen Renaissance Punk Join date: 4 Apr 2004 Posts: 1,869	01-06-2006 14:10 No, I have no need for this theory (and or feature). _____________________
Ralph Doctorow Registered User Join date: 16 Oct 2005 Posts: 560	01-06-2006 14:50 From: Torley Torgeson I like the idea, but implementing it... won't it make very heavily-scripted vehicles act all funny if they go over a bunch of small parcels in a row that have already used up their allocation? Why wouldn't that be the same as the prims of a vehicle? As long as you're seated in it, they don't count IFAIK. Same for scripts. That might have the odd effect that you could land but not take off. Of course that can easily be true in RL too.
Traxx Hathor Architect Join date: 11 Oct 2004 Posts: 422	01-06-2006 17:45 I support the intent of your proposal, Kenn. One aspect of lag is being overlooked, but I don't know how significant it would be. Lag from the club in your example would not be confined to the parcel where the club is located. Currently the lag from a club is not confined to the sim where the club is located. Avatars in an adjacent sim can lag your sim too. If I understand the current system correctly, it has to pass information about visible changes in sim A to avatars in adjacent sim B when these avatars are in range. So if you are in sim A the avatar in sim B is a child agent making update demands on your server. The proposed change might be a huge improvement despite this shortcoming. I'd like to see some experiments set up in-world so we can see how it performs, and how land owners modify their behavior under a system like this.
Rickard Roentgen Renaissance Punk Join date: 4 Apr 2004 Posts: 1,869	01-06-2006 17:52 Personally I don't think scripts are currently a huge problem. When SL limited the sim fps they fixed most of the issues I'd seen. Also they updated the debug status display and it appears that most of the places that are suffering from lag (at least that I go to) are not suffering due to scripts. Scripts frequently do depend on consistant performance too and this would exacerbate that problem rather than help it. My scripts aren't doing well because there are two many scripts vs my scripts aren't doing well because I don't own enough land. I just don't think it would solve more problems then it would cause. _____________________
Kenn Nilsson AeonVox Join date: 24 May 2005 Posts: 897	01-06-2006 18:38 I see the point of your rezzing across sims argument Traxx, but my main intent is in scripting responsibility, and such things are limited by sim as far as I can tell. Rickard, the change of problem from "my scripts are slow because there are too many BAD scripts in other areas" to the change of problem to "whoops, I have purchased/created bad scripts and therefore and suffering my own lag" is EXACTLY what I'm going for. Perhaps this idea is just a dream...but I have noticed many times in both myself and with friends/acquaintances that someone will move into a nice area...build up a store/house/etc. and keep everything responsible...and then... ...a month later someone moves in with bad scripting (and usually bad building...lol) and lags the whole sim. As time goes buy, these people may leave (and performance returns to normal even as other people fill the land) or the rest of the sim deserts... ...the point being that the system currently rewards irresponsible behavior by allowing you to suck from the resources of responsible people...and possibly piss them off enough to move and give you access to more same-sim land. _____________________ --AeonVox-- Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms chasing ghosts, eating magic pills, and listening to repetitive, addictive, electronic music.
Jillian Callahan Rotary-winged Neko Girl Join date: 24 Jun 2004 Posts: 3,766	01-06-2006 21:34 This has been discussed before. Just FYI. _____________________
Kenn Nilsson AeonVox Join date: 24 May 2005 Posts: 897	01-07-2006 12:32 I figured it had to have been discussed before...I just hadn't seen a vote proposal up on it...so thought I'd make one. _____________________ --AeonVox-- Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms chasing ghosts, eating magic pills, and listening to repetitive, addictive, electronic music.

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PROPOSAL: Performance Resources by Parcel, not by Sim