Scammed by Land Baron

This is a warning to those who work for land barons on commission.

Do not do a second deal without collecting for the first. I was promised 40% of ALL sales by a land baron. After the sale of 2 complete sims, and several other lots, I got NOTHING and the Lindens will not intervene into contract breaches.

Here is the worse part. She gave me 10k sq meters in Kafiri (in her own words "as a gift" Absolutely no strings attached. Now 10k was too big to fit my tier, so I sold a piece to a friend. She got pissed off because I sold the piece next to her island. The following day, she accosted him and another friend, claiming she had talked to Lindens and I was in trouble for selling land which I had no authorization to do so. One of them, she encouraged me to sell some to, then turns around an claims I stole it. The other friend, in consideration of me and my relationship with this land baron, gave the land I rightfully sold, back to her. I have logs and will issue to anyone who requests them. She accused me of hacking into her account and setting it. WTF, first she gives me the land, admits to it, then lies about it. I got email from my two friends stating she was on the warpath, when I logged on I told her she could have her "f--king gift back" so what did she do...set to 0 and anyone. Evil Fool bought the land for 0L, but after an explanation he was very kind and willingly returned the land to me. Thank you Evil for understanding my situation.

I was felt obligated to provide an equal amount of land to my friend in return, and did so.

She blatantly lied about the status of the land (claiming it was group owned) but it was MINE. yet Lindens do not investigate or uphold rightful ownership. Lee claimed it was "hard sell" tactics which my friend fell for. Is this sort of thing condoned? I think not. Its extortion, plain and simple. it was way easier to freak out than to pay her bills. She also has no right to misrepresent the Lindens (she claims they agreed with her, but I heard nothing from them).

So, next time someone promises you something for a job done, either take an advance deposit and collect immediatle after completion, retain logs of all conversations.

I accuse her of libel and fraud. These are crimes. yet LL turns a blind eye.

I will provide logs to anyone who requests them.


Be careful

Weedy Herbst

I would like to add my $0.02L to this thread.
Weedy is my mentor and friend in SL.

I bought the land in question from her. Her personally not a group as this mixed up individual claims.

Now, Weedy did make things right for me.

However, I am still seething about this whole affair. (none of that at Weedy, all at the baron in question) I would happily give an account of this whole tale to whoever will listen.
Please contact me in game.

If you are buying from a baron and there is anything other than a right click and buy land involved you owe it to yourself to get on IM and be warned.

Thanks for reading about this and please IM myself or Weedy to find out how you might help. As the Lindens have said this is between players ... public opinion is the only route I see that will give a resolution.

Thanks kindly,

Imogen Ferdinand
Kafiri Newbie School

What the heck could a 'land baron' do that you couldn't do?
If the little bit the 'land baron' gave you was over your tier, how the heck could you have afforded over 2 sims originally?

I didnt own the sims, I merely represented them for sale. my Tier is 1/4 sim. I needed to free up 2600 sq to make the remainder fit. Imogen took his choice of land he wanted.

so I am up to 4c L$ now ...

Just confirming the last post

People work for land barons on commission??!!

::boggle::

Weedy, forgive my ignorance, but what exactly does the above activity entail?

Sure, it mainly involves a keen eye and communications. Many of my clients are encountered while browsing new sims or land for sale. I often introduce myself, and explain that I represent a land baron and may be able find a package which is suitable for their needs.

In RL, I occasionally do location work for film companies. It is important that I find them locations which are suitable for thier needs at a reasonable cost. I apply the same principles in SL. I do not attempt to "hard sell", I allow my clients all the time they require, to look elsewhere to compare pricing and to discuss with partners.

Okay, so um.... how does your employer know that someone bought the land after being introduced to it by you, and not simply through the Land Sales tab or flying by? I'm not clear on how a list of sales, and thus commissions earned could be drawn up in such a way that it could not be disputed.

I have great sympathy for your plight, but it seems to me this is a very risky business to be in, with potential for huge misunderstandings on either side.

When I help someone sell their land, I take a fixed commission - currently up front, though if there were a way of enforcing contracts or an escrow system built into the mechanics of the game, I would take it only on successful sale. I have to take it up front as there would be no way of enforcing them to pay up after the sale (as happened the first time I acted as a seller's agent ). If I were representing a seller whose land just did not sell, I would of course return my commission (hasn't happened yet!)

Of course, I'm representing the individual resident selling land they've lived on for a while, and not selling large amounts of "just bought at auction" land, but the risks should be similar.

Weedy, I'm (one day) thinking of starting a Realtor group for people who act as buyer and seller agents (not for people selling their own land, whether bought for resale or not). Would this be a group you'd be interested in joining? My eventual aim would be to have licensing, so that customers would know they are dealing with knowledgable, experienced and ethical agents. It sounds like you'd fit right in there.

Oh, yes, this thread is soon going to contain shrill denials from the other side, a bunch of people jumping in saying "I told you so!" and referring back to past threads, a whole lot of name-calling, murmurings of self-government and a people's court, and will be closed by Jeska at about 2:30 p.m. on Monday.

Catherine Cotton, Jauani Wu and Talen Morgan will be the main participants with guest appearances by Cristiano and Ursa.

Your drama awaits!

It basically comes down to the fact we are all playing a game, behind virtual masks. You cannot trust anything anyone tells you or agrees to. There is nobody there to make sure that they uphold their side of the bargain. To make things worse, dragging out someone's name and reputation in the forums when they disrespect or rip-off an individual is against TOS. So, buyer and employee beware. Cover all of your bases up-front. Don't trust anyone. If you get ripped off, there is nothing you can do about it.

Sorry to say it, this is a game. It's not real life. If things go wrong, just continue on and try to enjoy your time here.

I understand the premise of your post Hank and for the most part I agree.

However, L$ are a currency albeit a fake one. 250L$ is approximately a buck US.

If there is a currency; there SHOULD be recourse,

There is none and that is not right.

..and hence all the threads on player government.

I'm with Hank. I do not enter into business partnerships with others on SL. I am a member of no commercial-based groups (except for the group for my mall, which exists only for object return control, and in which I am the only officer). I donate no land tier to any groups which have officers other than myself or my RL husband. I am the sole proprietor of all SL-based businesses I run.

Maybe I'm not a people person. I don't play well with others. But I sure avoid a lot of risks that way. :/

It is against TOS for me to tell u who it was so ...

It was NOT these people

Anshe Chung
Blue Burke
Declan Brodie
Ken Hadlee
Bob Bravo

and about 16750 other AV`s too

At least at my events you have

As i said, I agree for the most part with the ìt`s a game so don`t trust anyone`school of thought.

But if SL is to grow to what it COULD be ... at some point people will need to be able to collaborate commericially with others in some form.

To answer Lisse:

She took me on as full partner in all land sales. Claiming she needed this stuff moved fast.
Odd as it may seem, I protested this and insisted that I only be paid for sales which I am involved with. She did not want it that way, and reassured me of 40 percent of everything.
I dont claim to be owed for everything, only that which I am involved. How did I do this you ask.......well, I made a point of communicating to her who was interested in what and where. often land needed to be divided, joined, prices negotiated etc, which would indicate to her my involvement. At first, I would be paid immediately following sales.

You are correct in stating there is too much room for misunderstandings. However when I am approached to do a job, and given the terms for which to do so, I carried out my duties in good faith. I would expect to be compensated at the outcome. I left her once before and she apologized profusely, begging me to return. I moved alot of land for her.

And yes, I would be interested in a realty group, especially if it was licensed and supported by rules of conduct.

Given the amounts of money involved, you should have gone into this with a written, signed contract; something enforcable in the courts.

Lisse! pfft... Here I am - just like she said I would be!

Trouble is, if it's not US$1000 or more, it's not really worth anyone's time and money to enforce a contract in the RL courts. We are really, in all honesty, talking small change when it comes to litigation in RL. You can pay thousands of US$ just to be right about US$50. It's not worth it.

Ha Lissee I told you so! hehe kidding

Seriously I think when we are talking about substancial amounts of RL$ being involved I think its best that LL take an active role and make sure via chat logs and IP addresses that they have access to. Check the logs and make sure no one is being scammed out of RL funds via SL. The main objective of any upcoming company should be to keep its customers happy.

Cat

Looking at past auction prices for full and fractional sims, a wholesale sim is worth US$1000 to US$1500. Multiply that by two sims, then by 40%, and you're talking serious cash. Throw in a markup for retail, and it's on the order of a couple thousand dollars.

Yup :/

And I really don't feel sorry for you Weedy. You went into this knowing there is no good way to enforce contracts in SL. If in fact you did have one. I send lots of people who want land to people I know who buy and sell lots of it, but I don't expect anything in return.

Realistically, the main objective of ANY commercial entity is to MAKE A PROFIT. Customer happiness is an "also ran" as far as considerations go.

LL is not inherently different as far as I can see.. Up to a certain point, we are their best salesmen - and unpaid ones at that. After a certain point, we are just their customers... a necessary inconvenience. If they could, I am certain that 99% of all companies would rather just dispense their products and charge the credit cards of the customers and never deal with the customer otherwise.