Land Issues Starting with Linden 1st Land

This is my first posting and I am a newbie to Second Life and made a terrible, horrible mistake, so please don't throw me to the lions until you really consider what I have to say.

I searched for my Linden 1st Land on the map, along with the other land listings, since I assumed they would be listed right along with the rest of the $ signs all over the map. This would be a natural assumption, since rest of the land is listed in this fashion. I spent hours and hours searching for the elusive Linden 1st Land. (Well over 20 hours of in game time at minimum.) I also assume that I will get what I pay for and trust that a company will deliver a said purchase, product and/or benefits and not give me the run around. I found some land that seemed reasonable in price and went ahead and purchased it thinking I would use this land for my home and pick up my Linden 1st Land for use as my business property later when a friend logged in that could tell me how to find this elusive and mysterious land. My friend logged in within an hour or two of my land purchase and told me that you had to perform a search in order to find this “Promised Land“. I did as he instructed and bingo bango, I found my 1st Land, only to find out to my shock and horror that I had been locked out of the purchase of this land, due to the previous land transaction. I was dumbfounded, miserable, and confused as to why that would be a problem, since I had only just purchased my other land just an hour or two before and besides, I paid my resident fees so I could purchase the land in the first place. I am a very “Fairs, fair and fairs square.” type of person and my thoughts are that if you pay to become a resident to Second Life, you should get all the benefits listed, period, when you sign up and not become a victim of those benefits being obstructed by having tricky rules and pitfalls obviously designed in favor of Linden.
Linden 1st Land should be listed right along with the rest of the land on the map with the little “$“ sign indicators and not hidden away with only one means of finding the land. May I suggest a different color like they have done to distinguish between auction land and regular land sales? Another color could be used for leased land and/or land with covenants and so on, since there has been a problem addressed in the forums over that land issue, as well.
I ponder how many of the residents of Second Life lost their 1st Land due to the lack of information on the map about it and/or the lack of knowledge regarding the rules surrounding when to purchase the land? I am betting I am not the only one that made the error in trusting the land would be listed on the map along with rest of the land and that I could also trust that I would get the 512 square meters for one Linden dollar per square meter once I claimed it as promised.
I sent emails the very moment that I found myself locked out of my purchase, contesting what happened to Linden Support and Billing Departments only to get a response of basically, "Too bad, so sad!", those are the rules we made up and no reasonable explanation for the rule, so I can only assume that this rule is of no benefit, with the exception of making Linden more profit from mistakes made while trying to maneuver Linden‘s maze for acquiring the land. I was saddened that this was the way they thought best of handling this issue and felt betrayed by a company I fell in love with instantly and promoted so heavily. I again sent a lengthy email to the Customer Satisfaction Survey Linden emailed to me a few days later, stating my plight and have to date received zero response. I don't know about the rest of the residents of Second Life, but I want the land promised to me by becoming a resident and paying the resident fees. I spent a great deal of time promoting Second Life to a large number of friends on several MMORPG's I play and invested my interest, funds, heart and soul into this 2nd World immediately after becoming a resident, only to feel very betrayed by a policy that seems a bit on the shady side. Quit hiding the 1st Land and make it easily found on the dang Map along with rest of the properties so there won‘t be any confusion for the newbies. Also, please highly consider changing the policy on the 1st Land pertaining to when and how you can attain it. Maybe change it to a certain time frame you have to make the purchase within or some other method of making sure residents don’t wait for long periods of time to claim their rightful land. Either that, or make it so clear on the map there is no way someone could say they couldn't find it and also make it clear on the instructions during a new residents time on the starter isle that they must purchase this land before attaining any other property or they will forfeit their 1st Land. They could also add an in game warning that pops up letting new residents know that if they purchase a piece of land before purchasing their initial first land, that they will forfeit their right to said 1st Land. I plan to put this issue up for review and make it a proposal to vote upon in an effort to keep this from happening to another unsuspecting newbie and also in an effort to keep Linden's name good with the world.
Oh and by the way, I still want my 512 square meters of land. The way I see it, I have been taken to the cleaners for a minimum of L$2650 minus the cost of the 1st Land purchase of L$512, since that is the least I am seeing charged for a piece of land of that size.
This is not an issue about money; so much as it is an issue of principal. I plead you put yourself in my shoes and only want what was promised.


I also noticed another potential pitfall concerning land and the auctions. While I was on my search for my land above, I noticed that the land is listed in two different types of funds, real US dollars and L dollars. This system of listing land for more than one type of fund exchange rate is a risky business at best. I did not noticed the two types of funds right away and that could be due to fatigue relating to the long time spent within the 2nd Life world looking for land and the very small print in which the auction listings font is set to and the two different types of fund listings being intermingled as they are. I have a top of the line 19" flat panel monitor and I still didn't notice the difference between the listings right away. What ever the reason for not noticing which type of funds the land is being listed for, I can see someone accidentally purchasing land from the auction, thinking it was for Linden funds and that could be a potential disaster in the making, if it hasn’t already been an issue. I would suggest either one type of fund being used for the auctions or greatly enlarging the type face being used and listing the two types separately in different columns to avoid the potential risk and likely lawsuits that would follow.

First land is an incentive to get you to try land ownership so you want to tier up more. Since you bought land they aren't strongly interested in giving you your incentive. Especially since 65538L(total L from first land sim)/283(current exchange rate)=$231.57US(if sold by Supply Linden on Lindex. Each first land server they make loses them $750US immediately and it used to be the full $1000US lost before they they started selling L.

I believe this is mentioned on the pop-up screen when one attempts to buy land without ever having owned it before. of course it has been awhile since I bought first land.

Last time I had no land, I even got the warning even though I had already owned land.

I am not sure the warning is still there, but there used to be one.

Aside from all that, I don't mean to sound harsh to a new person who doesn't understand, but there IS a reason why it is called "first land"....with the emphasis on the word "first".

tried to get it and return the land I bought by mistake. Linden Labs polite response was basically "tough luck".

I knew I would get a response such as this over the wording of "1st Land", but I will reiterate that the wording and the tricky maneuvering one has to do in order to obtain the land is still an issue. i.e. (Linden 1st Land should be listed right along with the rest of the land on the map with the little “$“ sign indicators and not hidden away with only one means of finding the land.) I also anticipated a response of this sort from the fortunate residents that did manage to obtain their 1st Land, whether it was with the help of another resident or they managed to figure out the tricky system. My hat goes off to you for your brilliance and/or luck. I am certain that other residents have lost their land due to this issue and I know if the fortunate residents that did manage to obtain their 1st Land had fallen victim to this issue, they too, would feel cheated out of what they paid for by signing up to become a resident. They would also feel the nonchalant and too bad, so sad attitude towards this issue as just another example of the world and people in it not caring two cents about whether things are fair or not, just as long as they were not the ones cheated of justice.

I feel your pain.

I totally agree with you and as I suggested, this wording and the added difficulty of locating the property, is just another way to make money at others expense. i.e.
(If you pay to become a resident to Second Life, you should get all the benefits listed, period, when you sign up and not become a victim of those benefits being obstructed by having tricky rules and pitfalls obviously designed in favor of Linden.)
I trust that if Linden wasn't making a profit they wouldn't still be in business and according to the news and many other sources they are making a killing, but my question is this, is it proper or just to make profits in this manor?

Sorry to disappoint. Last word was they were still losing money. This may have changed more recently, but if it has it's a recent development. Businesses can and do run in the red for years. As long as enough investors think the business has enough potential to keep giving it funding and they don't run out of cash it's not a requirement that a business quickly enter the black and show a ROI. Also while it always sucks when you don't get your incentive don't expect that to change now or when LL is profitable. A good example is rebates. Plenty of companies make it very difficult to get your rebate. By comparision to many incentives companies offer First Land is very easy to get. Whenever any company offers an incentive be sure you know ASAP what conditions apply to that incentive. LL may pass alot of "love" around the office. But when dealing with customers LL is a for profit company they aren't going to play nice. And while I do think Customer Service could use ALOT of work don't expect incentive policy's to ever change in your favor.

Sorry to hear about your situation Lexie.

A simple search of the SL website could have helped prevent some of your angst. Particularly the page that refers to land ownership.

Perhaps this thread can help serve as a warning for other residents.

http://secondlife.com/community/land-getyours.php

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I did try a look at the website for the information and used the links at the left hand side of the page that referred to land. It only takes you to the auction area, of course and I looked around a little further, but to no avail.

Do you go through RL no knowing the rules also?
Stop!
Read!
Understand!
Then press that button!

Sometimes the Linden's have the same problem.....


http://secondlife.com/auctions/detail.php?id=0026199408

ya i noticed that earlier too lol

I see my faith in some fellow residents is misplaced and I did expect to see responses of this nature as well. You know if you followed your own advice you would realize that the issue has nothing to do with understanding, it has everything to do with principals and business practices.

I went and bought some milk at the store and when I got home and started to drink I realized it was skim milk. Should the store give me my money back or replace the product because I didn't pay attention to what I was doing?

Unfortunately, you missed out on an opportunity because you didn't understand how it the system works. While LL may have issues they need to resolve, it shouldn't be their responsibility to answer to your ignorance (that's not a demeaning term, please look it up before you flame me).

I found land that I wanted (~4000m2) and bought it without even having heard of 'First Land'. Yes, I kicked myself afterwards but it was my fault. I could've bought that 512m2 and sold it at 4xpurchase price.

Perhaps this will be a lesson from which you can learn before you attempt life in the real world. I don't mean to sound terribly harsh here and I apologize if I have offended anyone. But stop whining and live and learn.

JD

Fortunately, I don’t have to resort to slinging around terms describing someone’s intelligence level in an effort to get my point made. You have already done that for me with your statements and your lack of knowledge of the Second Life Forum General Guidelines. Please pay particular attention to the areas that are underlined and in red before you ask not to be “flamed”, and then had the nerve to quote from it as if you had actually read it. LoL

i.e. Purpose

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Be respectful. Please challenge opinions, state your own and enjoy the discussion, but do not cross the line into personal attacks and insults because you will risk having your Second Life account suspended or banned. We believe that in-world and forum behavior are linked and behavior carries across the boundary. This means if you are suspended or banned in-world you are also suspended or banned from the forums, and vice versa, if your account is suspended or banned from the SL Forums, it will also be suspended or banned from in-world. Violations are evaluated on a case-by-case basis depending on the severity of the offense and past history of violations. The following types of disciplinary action are possible remedies for inappropriate posts.

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community’s use. Individuals who have a dispute with each other have other channels of communication to discuss their differences or communicate – private messaging, IM within Second Life, or chatting within Second Life. Also, threads that are addressed to a single individual or group are inappropriate on the forums, this includes slander or "naming names" in a posts title, starting polls about a particular resident or group, etc.

Again, I apologize if my opinion has offended you and I appreciate your choice not to call me ignorant of the Second Life Forum General Guidelines. But wait, by saying that I have a lack of knowledge of what was in those guidelines you are implying my ignorance. Perhaps I should have included this definition:

ignorance – noun the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc. (Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.)

I fail to see that as a personal attack but I do humbly apologize if you misunderstood something that you read. My point however remains valid. If you had read and understood the instructions you would not have made that mistake and blaming the game for it is not a very productive manner in which to conduct business.

JD

You have degraded every post that disagrees with you. Then you attack JD with this bunch of balony? Ignorance and intelligence are two different things. He never referenced your intelligence. I strongly recommend you get a clue(better... lots of them) because you posts keep showing your ignorance and your disinterest in learning.

Heya Peeps,

Hey folks,

Lighten up on her, she made a mistake and hoped to be treated fairly and in good faith. She was not satisfied with the response she got and she's entitled to feel that way. You can disagree with her, but she still feels betrayed, and that's ok. Anyone can make a mistake, intelligence is not proof against error. Most MMORPG's have just awful customer support simply because they lack the man hours to do everything that customers expect of them, and another reason can be simple lack of caring about the customer.

There are many instances of heavy handed customer service reps and horror stories abound, in this case not a great deal was lost, but if you look at the principal of the thing as a consumer in any other setting, you would expect more from the company in such a situation. I'm not saying it is practical or even possible for LL to do more for this person, but it's not unreasonable for her to have expected more.

As my grandfather used to say, opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one, and they usually stink. Try to express yours in a way that is not hurtful to anyone else, it might be your turn next ^_^

Ta Moxie

I suggest you reread. Everyone has been very nice. It just hasn't been good enough for her. I chewed into her finally but not till after she ripped into JD for something he didn't even say.

There are those of us that choose not to roll over when we feel something unjust has occurred or that a system being used could be construed as being misleading and has the potential of being bettered . Then there are those of us that hang around in forums waiting for a chance to belittle and berated those of us that are trying to protect the rights of our fellow and future fellow residents. I choose not to roll over and to be a positive role model within Second Life and out. I have come to care deeply about the welfare of the owners of Second Life (Linden) and the residents of Second Life within my short time here and would hate to see yet another law suit come to life regarding the land issues. My intention is to bring a situation to light that could potentially be a downfall and protect us all.

I also disagree, the manor to which I conduct business is very productive and is geared towards the good of all concerned. I am also well versed in the command of the English language and will not resort to the use of inflammatory wording while making my thoughts heard.

Thank you so much for being open minded, diplomatic and kind when regarding the issue that I have brought to the table. I truly hope it benefits us all.

And yet, you continue to berate those who disagree with you. I have apologized for any percieved personal attack. You are right in saying that anything that anyone misunderstands can be detrimental to gameplay, but to blame your mistake on someone else will not help.

I surely hope you didn't mean to include me in your trolling (is that the correct term? Please forgive me if not) group. I certainly am not one to "hang around in forums waiting for a chance to belittle and berated those of us that are trying to protect the rights of our fellow and future fellow residents."

JD

It is unfortunate that you have been caught in this way but imho there was no malpractice. As others have said you should have read the TOS and additional marketing material first.

In real life I sometimes get frustrated at peoples inability to read and understand, although one makes every effort to spread the light of understanding, there are times when Murphy's law applies......

However in the broad swath of misunderstanding, bad fortune, human misery, and missed opportunities, my own judgement is that you have not been unduly shafted. Your loss is around $L4,000 or say $15 US, the price of a meal or perhaps a round of drinks.

Console yourself with the thought that as a human being you are one of the most lucky people alive, that is you have either a job or fair credit, are fed and watered, have a home and bed to sleep in, have friends, and you have some spare money in your pocket to play or speculate with.....

That makes you more fortunate than around 80% of the total human population in the world. In short you have won the lottery of life before you start. Why go into grieving at the temporary setback of $15, you appear to be an educated intelligent human, look upon it as a challenge to recoup.