Second Life Forums Archive - new Market Buy and Sell

Chri5 Somme

:)

Join date: 18 Nov 2005

Posts: 204

05-20-2006 22:38

From: Jeff Linden

Early next week (we're aiming for Monday), the LindeX will launch with a new change:

1. If your Currency Exchange interface is set to Basic, you will see Market Buy and Sell options, to let you buy or sell immediately and get right back to what you're doing.

2. If your interface is set to Advanced, you will now also see Limit Buy and the existing Limit Sell functions. These allow you to specify both a quantity of Linden dollars to offer, and an exchange rate. Limit Buys will work almost exactly like Limit Sells.

3. As Limit Buys may not be filled immediately, we have elected not to charge your payment option online with us. For this and other reasons, we ask that you have an existing US$ credit with us, from which Limit Buys will deduct. There will be a way for you to increase that if you so choose. Canceling a Limit Buy will similarly place the US$ charge back onto your credit.

4. We have not changed the fees. The LindeX is not selling L$ directly, but matching buy and sell offers from residents.

5. This feature will NOT, as some have mistaken, make your glass and windows shiny and streak-free. It will hopefully make your Second Life a little easier to manage!

so if i get this straight, ppl can limit their buy to like 315, 320, 350 or w/e they want? wow now buy orders will never be filled because people will wait for the cheapest one. linden mucks it up again!

oh and this...
"4. We have not changed the fees. The LindeX is not selling L$ directly, but matching buy and sell offers from residents. "

crash crash crash

Jon Rolland

Registered User

Join date: 3 Oct 2005

Posts: 705

05-20-2006 23:04

1. limit buy orders and market sells are a good thing.

2. LL reaffirming they are not currently selling $L's is also a good thing they alrdy screwed the economy royally by announcing their plans to sell they need to do damage control on that brilliant misfire every chance they can.

Shaun Altman

Fund Manager

Join date: 11 Dec 2004

Posts: 1,011

05-20-2006 23:39

From: Chri5 Somme

so if i get this straight, ppl can limit their buy to like 315, 320, 350 or w/e they want? wow now buy orders will never be filled because people will wait for the cheapest one. linden mucks it up again!

oh and this...
"4. We have not changed the fees. The LindeX is not selling L$ directly, but matching buy and sell offers from residents. "

crash crash crash

This is how a market works. They'll still be filled according to the best price, though. The person who offers to buy for 350 in your example will likely sit and never get filled, because the person offering to buy at 315 in your example is capturing all of the selling volume. There is nothing strange, unusual or wrong about Linden Lab finally implementing a sane, rational, two sided financial market.

There are some more things that they could do to make their market EVEN BETTER, of course.

The lack of buy orders to prevent instant devaluation was the biggest one on my list though.

_____________________

Regards,
Shaun Altman
Fund Manager
Metaverse Investment Fund

Zulqadi Saarinen

Registered User

Join date: 30 Jan 2006

Posts: 47

05-21-2006 02:04

Buy Orders are a good thing if implemented properly. they cannot stop market from moving where it has to move but would bring some stability and decreased room for manipulations. Everyday, we see those fills at 360 etc, no matter how small is the order, thats only a hoodwink from people who intend to move market to that direction, they would fail now as their would be a big buy rder barrier in front of them , and everytime they d place an order, that would be instantly filled making them lose...

,

And, yes, there would be a problem with instant devaluation in absence of buy orders, but I hope if such thing happens, the buy orders would flood in to maximise the opportunity, as it happens in RL markets. still, a safeguard from LL would be nice as Shaun suggested.

But some people are being too optimistic. The point to remember who dont know much about markets is, buy orders, though are good thing, but they cant stop market from moving to the direction it has to move in the long run.

Kazanture Aleixandre

Here I am.

Join date: 5 Oct 2005

Posts: 524

05-21-2006 03:59

They understood their mistake, and wont sell L$. This is a good thing.
But they dont say "we wont sell L$" to keep the door open. So they can sell, if L$ value goes up to like 250/usd rates(or what?).
Well, this wont bother me. Actually i would love to hear LL to say that : "we wont sell L$ s cheaper than 250/usd". This could bring trust to lindex.

Lord Kaos

Linux User

Join date: 1 Oct 2005

Posts: 34

05-21-2006 10:13

Selling Lindens is like "Hit and run" for new people (noobs)

_____________________

Also known as HellDragon.

Paulismyname Bunin

Registered User

Join date: 29 Nov 2005

Posts: 243

05-21-2006 10:33

Having a two sided book is a step in the right direction insomuch as it may improve liquidity and perhaps prevent large "out of the money" Linden dollar sales. It will not turn the market around and improve the exchange rate overnight but it may possibly enable very large traders to make a market independently of the LindenX.

But to work it will require the support of the large traders, it takes two sides to make a market and if there are very few buyers (or orders placed in the book) it will not make that much difference in the long run.

Finally one very recent example. Last Wednesday saw a very large one-day movement in the FT100 and Dow, being part of a correction going through the world financial markets all last week. (We hope) However last Wednesday the LSE set system broke down under the data load of sell orders, so many brokers withdrew buy orders (from their viewpoint on the other side of the book)

So I would suggest that people placing buy orders here monitor their positions with due care and diligence imho

Chri5 Somme

:)

Join date: 18 Nov 2005

Posts: 204

05-21-2006 10:48

all it takes is someone to sell a large quanitity of lindens to destabilize the markets. If i had 500k to maybe even a million linden to sell and i sold it for above average market prices then everyone would follow because it would take a day or two for the market to eat through my amount and since sellers are impatient, they would match my sell or sell 1 above. Then now you have a market with a devaluating dollar.

Keiki Lemieux

I make HUDDLES

Join date: 8 Jul 2005

Posts: 1,490

05-21-2006 11:08

In practice it won't work like this, the best buy price and best sell price will inch towards each other until there is a relatively small spread.

The best offer to sell might be 320 and the best offer to buy might be 330. If someone wants to sell off 500,000 quickly, their choices are sell it immediately for 330, or to post it for sale somewhere between 320 and 330. If they post it for sale outside the spread, they will just have to wait. It's like posting a million Linden for sale at 250/$ now, it has virtually no affect on the market because it's so unlikely to be filled anytime soon.

_____________________

imakehuddles.com/wordpress/

Maximillion Grant

Registered User

Join date: 29 Jul 2005

Posts: 172

05-21-2006 11:11

From: Chri5 Somme

all it takes is someone to sell a large quanitity of lindens to destabilize the markets. If i had 500k to maybe even a million linden to sell and i sold it for above average market prices then everyone would follow because it would take a day or two for the market to eat through my amount and since sellers are impatient, they would match my sell or sell 1 above. Then now you have a market with a devaluating dollar.

Aside from the fact 1 million gets eaten up fairly quickly, unless you've specifically requested a tier increase, the most you can sell in any 30 day period is $2500 US. This is one reason why you need to request a tier increase personally. Even at a 350 exchange you wouldn't be able to sell a million as it excedes $2500.

Even if you did I can guarantee you that million would be snapped up and resold at the current rate before you could blink.

Zulqadi Saarinen

Registered User

Join date: 30 Jan 2006

Posts: 47

05-21-2006 23:16

From: Maximillion Grant

Aside from the fact 1 million gets eaten up fairly quickly, unless you've specifically requested a tier increase, the most you can sell in any 30 day period is $2500 US. This is one reason why you need to request a tier increase personally. Even at a 350 exchange you wouldn't be able to sell a million as it excedes $2500.

Even if you did I can guarantee you that million would be snapped up and resold at the current rate before you could blink.

Exactly

Zulqadi Saarinen

Registered User

Join date: 30 Jan 2006

Posts: 47

05-21-2006 23:17

From: Keiki Lemieux

In practice it won't work like this, the best buy price and best sell price will inch towards each other until there is a relatively small spread.

The best offer to sell might be 320 and the best offer to buy might be 330. If someone wants to sell off 500,000 quickly, their choices are sell it immediately for 330, or to post it for sale somewhere between 320 and 330. If they post it for sale outside the spread, they will just have to wait. It's like posting a million Linden for sale at 250/$ now, it has virtually no affect on the market because it's so unlikely to be filled anytime soon.

Exactly!

new Market Buy and Sell
Chri5 Somme :) Join date: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 204	05-20-2006 22:38 From: Jeff Linden Early next week (we're aiming for Monday), the LindeX will launch with a new change: 1. If your Currency Exchange interface is set to Basic, you will see Market Buy and Sell options, to let you buy or sell immediately and get right back to what you're doing. 2. If your interface is set to Advanced, you will now also see Limit Buy and the existing Limit Sell functions. These allow you to specify both a quantity of Linden dollars to offer, and an exchange rate. Limit Buys will work almost exactly like Limit Sells. 3. As Limit Buys may not be filled immediately, we have elected not to charge your payment option online with us. For this and other reasons, we ask that you have an existing US$ credit with us, from which Limit Buys will deduct. There will be a way for you to increase that if you so choose. Canceling a Limit Buy will similarly place the US$ charge back onto your credit. 4. We have not changed the fees. The LindeX is not selling L$ directly, but matching buy and sell offers from residents. 5. This feature will NOT, as some have mistaken, make your glass and windows shiny and streak-free. It will hopefully make your Second Life a little easier to manage! so if i get this straight, ppl can limit their buy to like 315, 320, 350 or w/e they want? wow now buy orders will never be filled because people will wait for the cheapest one. linden mucks it up again! oh and this... "4. We have not changed the fees. The LindeX is not selling L$ directly, but matching buy and sell offers from residents. " crash crash crash
Jon Rolland Registered User Join date: 3 Oct 2005 Posts: 705	05-20-2006 23:04 1. limit buy orders and market sells are a good thing. 2. LL reaffirming they are not currently selling $L's is also a good thing they alrdy screwed the economy royally by announcing their plans to sell they need to do damage control on that brilliant misfire every chance they can.
Shaun Altman Fund Manager Join date: 11 Dec 2004 Posts: 1,011	05-20-2006 23:39 From: Chri5 Somme so if i get this straight, ppl can limit their buy to like 315, 320, 350 or w/e they want? wow now buy orders will never be filled because people will wait for the cheapest one. linden mucks it up again! oh and this... "4. We have not changed the fees. The LindeX is not selling L$ directly, but matching buy and sell offers from residents. " crash crash crash This is how a market works. They'll still be filled according to the best price, though. The person who offers to buy for 350 in your example will likely sit and never get filled, because the person offering to buy at 315 in your example is capturing all of the selling volume. There is nothing strange, unusual or wrong about Linden Lab finally implementing a sane, rational, two sided financial market. There are some more things that they could do to make their market EVEN BETTER, of course. The lack of buy orders to prevent instant devaluation was the biggest one on my list though. _____________________ Regards, Shaun Altman Fund Manager Metaverse Investment Fund
Zulqadi Saarinen Registered User Join date: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 47	05-21-2006 02:04 Buy Orders are a good thing if implemented properly. they cannot stop market from moving where it has to move but would bring some stability and decreased room for manipulations. Everyday, we see those fills at 360 etc, no matter how small is the order, thats only a hoodwink from people who intend to move market to that direction, they would fail now as their would be a big buy rder barrier in front of them , and everytime they d place an order, that would be instantly filled making them lose... , And, yes, there would be a problem with instant devaluation in absence of buy orders, but I hope if such thing happens, the buy orders would flood in to maximise the opportunity, as it happens in RL markets. still, a safeguard from LL would be nice as Shaun suggested. But some people are being too optimistic. The point to remember who dont know much about markets is, buy orders, though are good thing, but they cant stop market from moving to the direction it has to move in the long run.
Kazanture Aleixandre Here I am. Join date: 5 Oct 2005 Posts: 524	05-21-2006 03:59 They understood their mistake, and wont sell L$. This is a good thing. But they dont say "we wont sell L$" to keep the door open. So they can sell, if L$ value goes up to like 250/usd rates(or what?). Well, this wont bother me. Actually i would love to hear LL to say that : "we wont sell L$ s cheaper than 250/usd". This could bring trust to lindex.
Lord Kaos Linux User Join date: 1 Oct 2005 Posts: 34	05-21-2006 10:13 Selling Lindens is like "Hit and run" for new people (noobs) _____________________ Also known as HellDragon.
Paulismyname Bunin Registered User Join date: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 243	05-21-2006 10:33 Having a two sided book is a step in the right direction insomuch as it may improve liquidity and perhaps prevent large "out of the money" Linden dollar sales. It will not turn the market around and improve the exchange rate overnight but it may possibly enable very large traders to make a market independently of the LindenX. But to work it will require the support of the large traders, it takes two sides to make a market and if there are very few buyers (or orders placed in the book) it will not make that much difference in the long run. Finally one very recent example. Last Wednesday saw a very large one-day movement in the FT100 and Dow, being part of a correction going through the world financial markets all last week. (We hope) However last Wednesday the LSE set system broke down under the data load of sell orders, so many brokers withdrew buy orders (from their viewpoint on the other side of the book) So I would suggest that people placing buy orders here monitor their positions with due care and diligence imho
Chri5 Somme :) Join date: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 204	05-21-2006 10:48 all it takes is someone to sell a large quanitity of lindens to destabilize the markets. If i had 500k to maybe even a million linden to sell and i sold it for above average market prices then everyone would follow because it would take a day or two for the market to eat through my amount and since sellers are impatient, they would match my sell or sell 1 above. Then now you have a market with a devaluating dollar.
Keiki Lemieux I make HUDDLES Join date: 8 Jul 2005 Posts: 1,490	05-21-2006 11:08 In practice it won't work like this, the best buy price and best sell price will inch towards each other until there is a relatively small spread. The best offer to sell might be 320 and the best offer to buy might be 330. If someone wants to sell off 500,000 quickly, their choices are sell it immediately for 330, or to post it for sale somewhere between 320 and 330. If they post it for sale outside the spread, they will just have to wait. It's like posting a million Linden for sale at 250/$ now, it has virtually no affect on the market because it's so unlikely to be filled anytime soon. _____________________ imakehuddles.com/wordpress/
Maximillion Grant Registered User Join date: 29 Jul 2005 Posts: 172	05-21-2006 11:11 From: Chri5 Somme all it takes is someone to sell a large quanitity of lindens to destabilize the markets. If i had 500k to maybe even a million linden to sell and i sold it for above average market prices then everyone would follow because it would take a day or two for the market to eat through my amount and since sellers are impatient, they would match my sell or sell 1 above. Then now you have a market with a devaluating dollar. Aside from the fact 1 million gets eaten up fairly quickly, unless you've specifically requested a tier increase, the most you can sell in any 30 day period is $2500 US. This is one reason why you need to request a tier increase personally. Even at a 350 exchange you wouldn't be able to sell a million as it excedes $2500. Even if you did I can guarantee you that million would be snapped up and resold at the current rate before you could blink.
Zulqadi Saarinen Registered User Join date: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 47	05-21-2006 23:16 From: Maximillion Grant Aside from the fact 1 million gets eaten up fairly quickly, unless you've specifically requested a tier increase, the most you can sell in any 30 day period is $2500 US. This is one reason why you need to request a tier increase personally. Even at a 350 exchange you wouldn't be able to sell a million as it excedes $2500. Even if you did I can guarantee you that million would be snapped up and resold at the current rate before you could blink. Exactly
Zulqadi Saarinen Registered User Join date: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 47	05-21-2006 23:17 From: Keiki Lemieux In practice it won't work like this, the best buy price and best sell price will inch towards each other until there is a relatively small spread. The best offer to sell might be 320 and the best offer to buy might be 330. If someone wants to sell off 500,000 quickly, their choices are sell it immediately for 330, or to post it for sale somewhere between 320 and 330. If they post it for sale outside the spread, they will just have to wait. It's like posting a million Linden for sale at 250/$ now, it has virtually no affect on the market because it's so unlikely to be filled anytime soon. Exactly!

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