In-Game Land Transactions -- Public?
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Tiger Crossing
The Prim Maker
Join date: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,560
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02-22-2005 14:17
When an auction ends, the information on the sale is made public. How much land, how much money, when, etc... When in-game land is sold, the information vanishes into the void where only the meerest drippings fall out in the form of Philip's economic report excel page. I know the current value of my RL house by looking at the values of nearby comperable homes (it has more than doubled since we bought it  ) but I can't do that in Second Life. The auctions don't help for that since they are almost entirely focused on NEW sims, and not the older ones we live and work in. Would it be possible to list the last X land sales on a web page? (Where X is as high a number as you think the web page can handle.) If X must remain small, I suggest allowing web page browsers to choose a particular sim and get the last X sales just from that sim. This way, a potential land buyer can compare a current price to past prices in the area. Likewise, a land seller won't price their land too high to sell because they don't know what their land is worth. You list the last few items sold on the main web page, so it should be possible to do the same for land sales...
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~ Tiger Crossing ~ (Nonsanity)
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Tiger Crossing
The Prim Maker
Join date: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,560
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02-23-2005 14:35
Greetings, my post. I see you have followed me home...
I made this suggestion as a web page interface, as it seemed to me to be easier to implement, what with the existing item sales data showing the way. If the system were in-game, it would have to be more in-depth as far as queries go. On a web page, the information can be extracted, recorded an analyzed by the community.
I still lean towards a web interface.
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~ Tiger Crossing ~ (Nonsanity)
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Walker Spaight
Raving Correspondent
Join date: 2 Jan 2005
Posts: 281
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02-23-2005 15:39
The Lindens are apparently planning a "stats" page that will ostensibly have related information, but I doubt it will be enough to allow the really satisfying numbers crunching I'd like to do.
Transparency seems to be a bit of a problem in SL.
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Walker Spaight
Raving Correspondent
Join date: 2 Jan 2005
Posts: 281
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02-23-2005 18:55
I eat my words. The new econ stats page is up and has some pretty good information: https://secondlife.com/community/economy.phpNow if only we can get the more recent data at the top.
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Tiger Crossing
The Prim Maker
Join date: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,560
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02-24-2005 08:08
But it doesn't address my questions/issues. (And I didn't think it would... There's no WAY they could have done it THAT fast.  )
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~ Tiger Crossing ~ (Nonsanity)
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Beryl Greenacre
Big Scaredy-Baby
Join date: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,312
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02-24-2005 08:59
I agree it would be nice to have a record of sales prices for all land sold in SL. However, I doubt that the Lindens will do this. I suspect it might bring up some privacy issues, and the Lindens seem to be all about protecting privacy in SL. In real life, I can pull up a web page for my local county land records that shows exactly how much each property last sold for and to whom (as well as other data such as how much square footage is in the house, the size of the lot, when it was built, the amount of property taxes assessed, etc.). I think I can also get the past record of all sales for each property if I drive down to the county building and request it. However, in real life, we also have access to names of people who committed crimes, and we don't have that in SL. We have extensive zoning laws in real life, and I don't think the Lindens are anywhere near implementing those sorts of laws in SL, either. Judging by what other houses are selling for in my neighborhood in real life, our house/property has increased in value by over 20% since we bought it almost three years ago. Invest in real estate in real life if you want to make money; invest in real estate in SL if you want to have fun or run projects, I always say. 
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Swell Second Life: Menswear by Beryl Greenacre Miramare 105, 82/ Aqua 192, 112/ Image Reflections Design, Freedom 121, 121
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Walker Spaight
Raving Correspondent
Join date: 2 Jan 2005
Posts: 281
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02-24-2005 10:38
From: Tiger Crossing I suggest allowing web page browsers to choose a particular sim and get the last X sales just from that sim. That's a great idea. If it's the last X sales from across the grid, though, the data will fall out of the queue too quickly to be of any use, I imagine. I'm all for a public record of *all* land transactions. An intermediate solution that doesn't step on anyone's privacy might be to list the average sale price per sq. m. *in each sim* (trailing 7-day averages) for both in-world and auction sales. And if those got posted each week and remained on a thread somewhere, we could compile historical data ourselves. You lose a little granularity not knowing whether it was waterfront or what that was sold, but it would be a helpful service. If privacy is still an issue (because people are going around looking up who claimed what when) then a trailing 14-day average could help mask that a bit. What is by rights public and what's private is in some ways a grey area of SL (mostly because we don't have any "rights" beyond the TOS and CS). In RL we have records like those cited by Beryl above because they're useful for legal reasons and because our taxes fund the record-keeping. We don't have a legal system, but there's no reason tier shouldn't fund the same record-keeping in SL, as it's relatively easily implemented and would be a very useful and informative service.
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Tiger Crossing
The Prim Maker
Join date: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,560
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02-24-2005 11:11
If people have issues with names being visible, then hide them. Hide the plot location even. But don't aggrigate the data. We already have averages and median and totals gallore. If you see a plot of X size sold in Y sim for Z L$, you'd have to have known what plot was for sale by whom and then visit the site before it changes to see who the new ower is. If you have THAT much vested interest, the data on a web page isn't much more than a notification of when the sale happened. If you are viewing the page cold, no name and no location will prevent you from figuring the who and where. But the land auctions DO list names and locations. What's good for the gander... I'd like to see the same level of information in the player-to-player auctions. I'm far more interested in what players are doing with players (in sofar as land sales are concerned) than I am with player to Linden transactions. (And this from the guy that's done in-depth studies on auction activites.) I'm sure that the auction data is far more interesting to Linden Labs since that's a source of income to them. But in-game land sales are a source of income to the player base, and we outnumber the Lidnens, don't we?  I'd like to add that I have not bought or sold land for many months, nor do I plan to any time soon. I'm making this request out of a desire to see Second Life stabilize and grow.
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~ Tiger Crossing ~ (Nonsanity)
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