How about a privately run, moderated Land / Economy forum?

If I set up on my own a forum intended for people who want to engage in a serious discussion of issues relating to Second Life Land and the Economy, would anybody use it?

I recognize the devil is in the details. For the purpose of this exploratory question, please assume such a private forum would somehow provide you an opportunity to discuss seriously the issues you want to discuss, and avoid the off-topic responses that most posts attract on the SL forum. If not very many people express an interest in even this ideal situation, that will be a strong signal not to pursue this idea any further.

Sometimes it needs negative responses from people like me to actually bring a touch of reality into discussions about the so-called 'economy' within SL.

There's nothing to stop you making your own 'economy' forum anywhere you like - Yahoo Groups is a cheap and easy option, for one... but you do need to realise that the vast majority of players only interest and involvement in an economy is because they have to buy money to buy land.

If everyone's money returned to L$1,000, and everyone had a level playing field to start again, then I would guess that many of the existing 'big names' would cease to exist when trying to stand up against new competition. At the moment, only a tiny handful of wealthy players can control everyone else, and nobody has a hope of getting a look in. No better than pyramid marketing.

Some of us still treat a game as a game, and not a cash cow to be milked for our own benefit at the expense of others.

LEwis

I think there's room for serious discussion, and there's room for not so serious discussion, even in the Land and Economy forum, and even in the same thread.
Sometimes an off-topic post brings welcome light relief (as do some on-topic posts).
Sometimes a thread can spawn new topics.
I also think it's important that people feel free to participate at whatever level is appropriate for them, whether they're an economic expert or a new resident just wondering something.
And let's face it, without some of the humorous, off-topic posts, well, land and economy can be a pretty dry subject don't you think?

If you obtained a critical mass of intelligent, thoughtful people with something to contribute, I'd certainly be interested in reading it.

Once in a while, if I thought I had something useful to say, or a question, I'd post.

It would have to be on par with terranova http://terranova.blogs.com/ for me to continually go back, if it were outside these official forums.

For good or ill I suspect this ship has already set sail. This is it. We are all sharing the same deck within this forum with no lifeboat, but maybe someone could build one.

You know, I'm actually very interested in the concept of virtual economies, as I am in all aspects of virtual life, but I can't stand the dumb college monetarist mentality that seems to follow such discussions around here. This is the only place I've ever seriously discussed such things so I couldn't say how common it is in general, but if that's going to go across to a new forum I'd probably register, maybe make a few posts but after that not bother.

I'd suggest broadening the remit a little, because just dealing with "economic" issues encourages people to concentrate just on numbers, whereas economic and social analysis are absolutely directly linked. For instance, I think the threads in General at the moment about pricing items could be far more productive than umpteen threads about the Lindex. What is inflation about in the first place anyway?

Bottom line is, I'd probably register whatever happened, but the activity that goes on might well turn me off very quickly. I suspect that that wouldn't just be me either, and setting up a new forum, you need to have it be sticky.

I think this forum can do the job.

Probably the best way to get good discussion is:

1. Let's try to have a bit more self discipline in only posting when we have something useful to say

2. Yes, it is fun to make snide retorts but ultimately counter-productive. Let's ignore and not to take the bait when people fill a thread with drivel or start yet another one paragraph spite fishing expedition with no substance. Let it rot, leave it unanswered, only answering / rewarding the posts with merit.

Doing this would clean the forum up.

I think this forum is about as useful as any other would be.

I'd disagree with that Lewis, yes there are old established names, but also newer established names. If I may cite Cory Edo, and Tiny Seadog as an example,Cory joined Sl roughly a year ago, and in that time moved from a n00b, with nothing, to co founder and codirector of tiny Seadog, a well respected studio, which creates content good enough, and with a high enough profile, for the BBC to choose her for facilitating their newsnight special on second life.
Cory had a lot of established competition when she started out, but she sucedded Lewis.
Think on that before you say people are only successful proportional to their time in SL.
If we all had a level playing field again, many of the same names would rise to the top, because they have talent Lewis, its as simple as that.

you could make a yahoo group...

the question is:
would anyone come to dinner?

Some perhaps but not all. However, my guess is that it's more down to spare cash than anything else. I know I am capable of a lot more than I do in game but I don't have the cashflow to support it, so I plod onwards.

It seems like some people tend to take my 'suggestions' as if they are actually going to happen. I don't think for one minute that LL would level up the playing field, but there's no harm in dreaming is there.

Apparently having opinions that are contrary to popular thought makes me a communist *shrug* even though the individual concerned isn't brave enough to post it here and decided to harrass me in game instead. As no names have been mentioned, this is not a personal attack, by the way.

Lewis

Again, i say talent is the most petinent factor, many of SLs best known names in content work in the arts media or software in RL, so even a level playing field wouldnt be level, unless their brains were wiped by some bizzare wierd science device.
Oh, and hard work too Lewis, a lot of these people put as many hours into work here as they do their RL jobs.

And I cant see any sort of personal attack in your opinion Lewis, however much i may disagree with it

I'll take your example as truth (no reason not to) - but, "newness" in Second Life is a very suspect thing.

Indulge in a fantasy for a moment with regard to capable, connected old members. There is nothing to stop a "FIC" member from becoming new again.

Using his/her (real? imagined?) inside connexions and long knowledge of Second Life to boost their rapid rise with regard to notariety and finance, all the while expunging whatever scandal may have preceded.

So... there never *can* be a level playing field, as long as the old guard:

1) can create 'alts',

2) have an actual advantage of experience,

3) have their network of associates intact.

The problem isn't negative comments Lewis. It's the repitition of bias to the point where it becomes merely trolling. It's the kneejerk responses that drown out thoughtful commentary.

For that matter - it's the near absence of thoughtful commentary.

Count me in. *Especially* if it's moderated to bounce posts that don't conform to reasonable posting standards. (I.E. top posting and failing to trim quotes, Yahoo! encourages both of these reprehensible practices because of its groups<>email gateway.)

Lee, what you suggest is basically what the Group Forum for the Law Society of Second Life was created to do, though in a slightly different discipline. The experience of it may be useful to you.

It is true, I think, that there are many posters in the open forums that have limited or no experience or understanding of the things they post about, but they are easily ignored. It is also disappointing that many do not seem to read the contributions of others before they put their two cents in.

These are the features of any unmoderated forum, or even of a forum or journal that has no process of pre-publication "peer review".

The downside of a Group Forum, such as that of the Law Society (and dozens of others), is that it has lower visibility in the forum index pages. One must click down another layer of menus to get there, and I suspect many folks simply do not know how to access the Group Forums.

Unless they've changed the rules, LL will set up a Group Forum for any in-game group after you get 20 members, if memory serves. There is a small fee to create a Group, and you must collect a certain number of members (3?? 5?? ) within a certain period to sustain it as a Group. Once the group is established, and you're ready to set up a Group Forum, LL will require you to give them the names of two players to be moderators. There is a about a week lag in LL's process after the request goes in, but then you'll have a forum you (and your second) can moderate.

When the Law Society was created, I put a charge to join, on the principle that people put a higher value on something for which they have paid something, even a nominal amount. A principle well known to marketers and sociologists. For the first 25 members, we set the initiation fee very low (L$25, less than a US dime). It is now L$250, less than one US dollar. The proceeds are held in trust for the purposes of the Society.

We've been fortunate that the postings in the Law Society Forum have been thoughtful and respectful. Law Society members have also participated in discussions (such as this one) in the open forums. An Economics Society might be structured similarly, or you might have a better idea.

Frank

I'd like to see forums about SL outside of the Lindens' control. I just can't trust the Lindens because they are the owners and operators. The TOS stops converstations from happening that need to happen. I just don't feel free here in the forum, no one can when the gods are hovering their finger over the permban button if you say the wrong thing.

I think you grossly overestimate how much of the SL economy is in the hands of land barons. Content creation can be an *extremely* successful moneyspinner, but requires talent and time to execute, rather than deep pockets. There is comparatively little financial risk involved... and, unlike land barons (who, by nature of their business, need to drop a "for sale" sign on everything they own), you can be pretty successful without drawing a lot of attention to yourself.

(that said, I think successful land trading requires a vast degree of shrewdness, business acumen, and no short measure of ruthlessness too... it's certainly not a simple case of "she with the lagest bank account, wins..."