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Recommendation: when buying land from non LL people, use PayPal
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
11-27-2005 11:50
You can file chargebacks with PayPal and your credit card.

You can not do so with L$.
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
11-27-2005 11:54
lol - if i was selling land, i would never accept this.
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
11-27-2005 11:56
Do you mean accept?
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
11-27-2005 12:02
From: blaze Spinnaker
Do you mean accept?


yup. thanks for pointing out the very confusing misspelling
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Jauani Wu
hero of justice
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Jamie Bergman
SL's Largest Distributor
Join date: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,752
11-27-2005 12:03
Also, you can check my blog for very helpful economic and buisness information.

http://sleconomyblog.blogspot.com/
Buck Weaver
Unsolicited Onterator
Join date: 18 May 2003
Posts: 251
11-27-2005 12:05
From: blaze Spinnaker
You can file charebacks with PayPal and your credit card.

You can not do so with L$.


What is a "chareback"?
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
11-27-2005 12:57
From: Buck Weaver
What is a "chareback"?

lol :)
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Jauani Wu
hero of justice
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
11-27-2005 13:00
From: Buck Weaver
What is a "chareback"?


Pwned.
Rathe Underthorn
Registered User
Join date: 14 May 2003
Posts: 383
11-27-2005 13:05
Reversing the charges on a legitimate land purchase would be fraud and although Paypal may honor the buyers request the seller could pursue the buyer for fraud legally if they wanted to. You are much better offer talking the issue out with the seller first and trying to resolve it before charging back as a last resort.

For L$ based purchases though some sellers will happily refund you. I offer a 30-day money-back guarantee for all land purchases through SL LAND if you aren't satisfied for any reason, no questions asked.
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
11-27-2005 13:18
Well, Rathe, I'm not sure you're really in the right context here.

Obviously, for mainland transactions you have to purchase via L$, so this conversation isn't applicable to your land sales as far as I can see.

This is, however, applicable to those who are selling island land (perhaps I should have added the word island).

What is keeping someone who sells island land simply from walking? In theory, LL is keeping them from doing that.

However, since they have indicated that they will not get involved in massive fraud, then your only recourse is paypal.
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Rathe Underthorn
Registered User
Join date: 14 May 2003
Posts: 383
11-27-2005 17:10
True. I know many compare "selling" island land to the same as Linden Labs "selling" mainland land but Linden Labs is far less likely to disappear in an entirety than a user who "sells" island land and then leaves or stops paying their tier causing all those island land "owners" to suddenly lose their land with no recourse other than to sue the seller if they can resolve their true identity.
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Ralek Queso
Registered User
Join date: 3 Feb 2005
Posts: 32
Read the Paypal agreement carefully
11-27-2005 19:02
Paypal buyer protection (which allows you to request chargebacks) DOES NOT COVER virtual items. If you issue a chargeback request, ALL that the seller has to do is point out that the purchase was for a virtual good or service and the chargeback will be reversed.
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Jeffrey Gomez
Cubed™
Join date: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,522
11-27-2005 19:34
From: Ralek Queso
Paypal buyer protection (which allows you to request chargebacks) DOES NOT COVER virtual items. If you issue a chargeback request, ALL that the seller has to do is point out that the purchase was for a virtual good or service and the chargeback will be reversed.

Beat me to it. I was going to say...

Really, if you want protection, get to know your Credit Card company.
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
11-27-2005 19:35
From: someone

Paypal buyer protection (which allows you to request chargebacks) DOES NOT COVER virtual items. If you issue a chargeback request, ALL that the seller has to do is point out that the purchase was for a virtual good or service and the chargeback will be reversed


The last thing as a seller you ever want to be doing with PayPal is point *anything* out to them.

PayPal has low transaction fees because there are not a lot of disagreements they have to get in the middle of.

As soon as they have to start dealing with you constantly, they'll just take your account (and everything in it) away from you.

And pissing off PayPal is a lot more expensive then just giving people their money's worth.
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Bertha Horton
Fat w/ Ice Cream
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 835
11-27-2005 19:37
Paypal won't do any more business with me unless I give them a bank account number.

You fix this, and I'll consider your recommendation.
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
11-27-2005 19:38
From: Bertha Horton
Paypal won't do any more business with me unless I give them a bank account number.


Exactly.
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
11-27-2005 20:00
Just remember it can actually go both ways. If you are paying someone tier with Paypal and they have a dispute with you, they can complain and get your Paypal account frozen. Depending on what you use it for, this may be a serious problem.
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
11-27-2005 20:54
You can do that a few times as a seller, but like I said, if you show up on PayPal's radar as a problem account - you're toast.
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
11-27-2005 20:55
The point is to cause pain, not necessarily to get your money back.

If the seller is going to feel pain the probability of jerking you around goes to zero.
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Dark Korvin
Player in the RL game
Join date: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 769
11-27-2005 22:41
Am I remembering correctly that verbal contracts are valid in the U.S. for everything under US$500 in value. If so, then shouldn't someone be able to pursue a person in court if they can find them. If you don't even know how to find the person in the first place in real life though, I'd say you have already demonstrated that you don't care if you lose that money.