SL Offline Mode

Ok, yes, I have noticed many requests for some sort of offline editor.

However, after reading about ten or so of these requests, I have not really found anything but the desire for a simple build panel client and my guess is that people are thinking of something like the stock art program that comes with Windows ('paint') - only in a 3d mode.

Well, this idea will take all of these requests a step further:

Add an offline mode to the current client!

With the offline mode enabled (chosen via the same login location dropdown that currently holds 'home, last location, specified sim'), one would be set on a single, sim sized plot of land (256x256 meters).

On this parcel would reside some stock building aides such as rulers, french curves and the like.

There would also be a 'chest' of sorts. This chest is used to store works in progress (simply the 3d representation of a folder on your hard drive, where you store projects you are working on).

With the room sized to a full sim, one would be able to work on extraordinary projects like skyscrapers, passenger liners or even model a full sim!

Some other ideas for offline mode that might be possible:

* Register your offline status with SL for use in the Friends list.
* Allow the people on your Friends list to join you in your offline workarea (especially usefull when more than one person is working on a large project) - limit the offline population to 3 or 4 people and ONLY those on your friends list, preventing 'workroom get-togethers'
* Prim Count Overlay, that keeps track of the number of prims that are currently in use. This would be helpful for builders working on sim-sized builds - or any type of build, really - so they can see at a glance what their creation is using.


What I would like to do here is refine the tool list and options, plus get any pre-prop feedback from Lindens

Asking for an offline world sounds reasonable, but when you then suggested that friends be allowed to enter your offline world, my head started to hurt.

I think what you're really asking for is to be able to host a sim on your own computer and not have to pay service charges.

Um. Through magic?

And not have any access to your inventory, and not be able to support more than a couple of users, and not be able to connect to the grid.

No service, no service charges.

Actually, I did put limitations on the request. The simple reason for even asking for this inclusion in the offline mode is that there are times when you have more than one person working on a project. This is especially true for larger builds that may include scripting.

This feature would help with a bit of the lag issue and help with the sandbox population problem.


Well, not necessarily 'no access to inventory'. There would need to be a way to include completed projects into the world inventory, as well as to allow access to some of the more elaborate tools that can be purchased in-world (which a builder may have already purchased).

An offline work area would NOT be connected to the live datastream. Searches, IMs and other real time info or action would not be available.


This is the type of 'feedback' that isn't needed on any post. You offer critisizm without correction. That and the fact that you, obviously, didnt read and comprehend the original post:


As noted, just above the request you so eagerly attack, is the inclusion of a 'registration'. This would enable people to connect to you in a manner similar to the way they can IM you. While it mat take a bit of extra coding, the registration would allow some ptp connectivity.

Thanks, folks. Hopefully that will eliminate misconceptions about the feature idea.

Yeah. the sandboxes are definitely a problem lately. I can't imagine new residents being impressed either.

A private world for building may be on the horizon. But it will definitely involve hosting a sim on your own server.

I suppose it all depends on whether Linden Lab feel confident enough that they can still provide a service. If everybody has their own private world, then wont Linden Lab be put out of business?.

I own my own land just for building on. If I could host my own world then I'd give up my land immediately.

Well, I get a little aggrivated when I go to a public, Linden sandbox - which is chok FULL of griefers - to find that my radar/defense items don't work. I also find it annoying that, even though I head up to 700 meters and create a skybox (not a huge one like the more inconsiderate folks do, only 40x40 here). I STILL have people poking their heads in... they rarely talk (not like it would matter to me if they did), just snooping, hoping to steal ideas.

I actually RENT land to build on. Don't get me wrong, I have a small shop at ground level. If I could build offworld, I don't think I would give up the land, merely find something else to do with it. Perhaps a showcase, bigger store... who knows.


Folks seem to think I'm looking to be able to host hundreds of people. I'm not. I added a limiter of 3-4 people. Aside from this, MOST home internet connections wouldnt handle much more that 3-4 connections for the same reasons you need a stream server to play your music to more than a few people. Even if LL came out with a 'server-inna-box' I think we would only see corporate sims for quite a while... "Nike World", yeah, that really makes me wanna log into a private sim. Bandwidth for 90% of the home users would deter them from constant sim hosting. We've all seen what a full 'class 5' server does under 25+ users...

I am sure there would be people that would use this idea to their own advantage. Then again, there are people that use the LSL scripts to their own advantage - namely griefing. And if that is the worst thing that happens to this ides, I say let the griefers live in their own little world - I won't be having them in mine.

There could be a further limiter to the concept. If you want to work offline and want to allow friends to connect, LL could charge you L$ per connection. This would be an option that would be set each time you use offline mode. I would accept this IF this fee was taken into consideration when it came time to 'upload offworld creations to server'

I do not see that being possible without being connected to the grid.

If you're connected to the grid, then why not just log in somewhere out of the way? It's not the private area that's the important part of "offline mode", it's simply not being visible via the long-distance presence facilities like IM, Friends list, mapping, and so on.

Being able to have a genuinely private area that's smaller than a private sim... that's another thing LL needs to provide somehow, but I don't think that should be connected to some kind of "offline mode"... the two needs are not that closely related.

No, actually it would be comparitively easy (comparative to coding a completely seperate program to allow for designing while not logged in). A user would log in just like normal. An addition to the login location dropdown that would allow for an offline mode.

During the login process, certain amounts of information would be exchanged between the server and client. This would include your offline status (perhaps linking that to a new friends list flag), your IP address (so friends you select can connect to your workshop) and current inworld inventory check (a fast UUID comparison to what is cached on the client).

While it may constitute a few hemmoroids, it is a far cry from completely coding a seperate application.

As for the term 'genuinely private', there is no place on the live grid that would qualify as such. Smaller than a full sim is kind of a joke, too. I build. I build LARGE items, either in size or in prim count. Could you imagine the prices I would have to charge if I had to OWN my own sim in order to work on these projects as a whole?

From another standpoint; If builders had a place offworld to practice, design, construct or showcase new ideas to a small group of people, it would definately reduce prim counts in-world and do away with sand boxes pretty much altogether.

What does one offlline sim, with a capacity of less than half a dozen individuals possibly cost the company? Especially considering the addition of the 'friends connect fee' I mentioned in the very same post you quoted.

You can not advertise your offline sim. Residents NOT on your friends list (and selected for the ability) can not connect. You can not send or recieve any information from in-world (aside from the initial login data exchange), which includes IMs, Group Messages or any sort of searching. Basically, all you get is a large room which wipes its information each time you shut it down. The only things that remain are the items you drop into the 'chest' as works in progress. The ability to upload completed projects to the server, with the associated fees (taking into account any fees for the friend connect feature) would also add to the lining of LL pockets - it would cost a good bit to work in the offline mode.

However, this is not really where I wanted this thread to go. The debate of whether the idea is a good one or not would be in the voting. This is a place to iron out the proposal. Figure out what is feasible, what should be included, what should be disallowed. Just saying the whole idea is bogus is NOT participating in the idea. If you don't LIKE the idea, simply don't VOTE for it (really, a crying shame you can't vote 'nay', that would have a more realistic outcome, assuming they would allow some form of rebuttal for the nay-voters).

All this idea really does is offer PRIMMERS the same advantages that ARTISTS and LSL CODERS already have, the ability to not have to deal with interruptions (read: griefers) while working. What's wrong with that? All the arguements against a seperate offline application for building work with the upload projects aspect. THIS idea would have the project ALREADY in SL format and be semi-secure. All the build tools are already IN the client, why bother coding a new (and even buggier) application? Why force primmers to pay for a US$300 or better for a program designed for ANIMATORS and ARCHITECS? Yes, most artists use either photoshop or paintshop, but they dont HAVE to - msPaint and a dozen other paint programs can do the trick and are FREE. Currently, Blender is the only free program that would work as a base for an offline builder. Not many people like the program, many more have no clue as to how to use it (I sure cant get much farther than opening a file), BUT can sure work magic with the SL-native build tools. Besides, you currently can't upload Blender-built projects without severely overtaxing the prim count on even an entire sim!

So, by saying 'tough, there are ways to build offline', you would be saying that those people that arent 'smart enough' to operate a program such as Blender, or can't afford a program such as 3DS Max, shouldn't be allowed to build offline? That's a lame and simple-minded arguement.

I see this as a useful Idea. But I think the only way it will fly is if its completely offline, and does not allow you to have freinds over.

Imagine how much less lag there would be without the client to server communications. Would be nice.

Any work done in offline mode should be able to be saved in some sort of file.

Projects could still be a colabrative effort using a IM program and sending files.

First, thanks for the support

However, my objective here is to NOT have an extra program running. Once the initial data transfer took place, there wouldn't be any client-server comms from the offline user. Perhaps a short ping every 10 mins to see if your client was still alive and not in crash mode. (normal style logoff would give a normal server 'end service')

A person wishing to connect to your workshop would do so in one of two ways:

1) Select an offline friend thru the drop down menu (which could list friends in offline workshops), but that may be pushing the whole proposal into the feared 'X' mode :-/

2) Via the friends panel, which would initialize a client reboot, pointed at the workshop's IP (probably easier to do, but I'm definately not a coder)

With talk of some sort of offline IMing utility, this might be a moot point, however.

Yes, projects would be saved in the 'magic chest'. When you first initialize the offline mode, you can click this chest and point it to a directory on your computer. (or simply have the option in the preferences, but the magic chest would be cool). Since SL currently saves its objects in some form of file, it would be easy to have the workshop save the info in the same manner and allow for easy transfer to the live grid once the item is completed... for a fee, of course.

Tyrone, I think you're over complicating things a little. It seems to me that you don't necessarily want to be offline. But you just want to be able to host your sim on your own computer, so that you can then be free from griefers. Am I correct?

If so, then you should be suggesting that Linden Lab give us the ability to host our sim, instead of suggesting that they give us an offline builder that isn't really offline.

I dont see the lindens agreeing to basically give you a partial function sim to build your projects in with your freinds while being detached from the main grid.

A lot of people would decide not to buy land - becuase this partial functioning sim would suit their needs.

Perhaps when the server side goes open source, however. Then they will already be giving up their land monopoly.

I agree, and I've basically said the same already in an earlier post. Yet a privately hosted sim is the only way Tyrone is going to get what he wants.

You know what?

So far I have seen over half a dozen "oh thats a stupid idea" arguements, none of which seem to actually SEE the whole picture. Each of you has referenced about 1/100th of the whole idea and say 'this wont work'. NONE of you has even offered any sort of idea as to how to IMPROVE it.

Each and every one has claimed, in one form or other, that the whole idea is based around 'hosting my own sim'.

I will abandon this and leave you with one question:

What good is hosting a sim from a home computer when 90% of the home internet connections CANT SERVICE MORE THAN 3 or 4 CLIENTS and gets WIPED every time you shut the client down (whether by choice, need or accident)?

That's it. I have stated and attempted to clear everything up from the original post... I'm now done trying to beat brains into rocks. Don;t worry, not one more peep from me...

Its not that its not a good idea.

Its that I(we) dont think the Lindens will go for it.

Ill go further than your idea even -

Would be great to let everyone host land on their own computer even for a small handful of users even in a limited fashion.

Id even be for temporary land / mini islands - whatever a home computer could handle at a reasonble price.

Just dont think will happen until they are ready to open source the server side of things.

Well you said yourself that you only wanted 3-4 friends to be able to join you in your strange offline/online twilight zone world.



Well of course it's not going to exist when you shutdown your client, and neither would your offline/online builder.


Tyrone: I would like an apple that is a banana, please.
Grocer: You want a banana?
Tyrone: No.
Grocer: You want an apple?
Tyrone: No, stupid!
Grocer: You want an apple and a banana?
Tyrone: NO!! I WANTAN APPLE THAT IS A bANANA!
Grocer: This isn't possible
Tyrone: Well this is pointless! If you're going to be negative then just forget it!!.
Grocer: !!!

Good so far. But you're missing one thing:

Inventory is not downloaded to the client. Only a list of what you own is.

Some parts of your inventory ends up cached on your computer, but only as a side effect of it being rendered in-world. If you don't rez it, it's not there. Scripts are never there. The contents of objects may or may not be depending on how they're used by the scripts in the object. So there's no copy of your inventory on your computer for the offline client to use.

this has all been brought up many times before, I'd like it myself. It's not going to happen any time soon. So the thing to do is come up with proposals that *are* potentially implementable.

Err, yes, that's the point I was making.

That's why there are sandboxes.

If you want a disconnected sim, then look at OpenSim.

That's what's happening. There's two separate proposals here, both of them good ideas. An "offline" mode that gives you privacy from the IM-related functions, and a "private space" in SL that gives you privacy in-world. You'd like to have this implemented as a stripped down sim-like space in your computer, and as I've said so would I, but that's not something that LL is going to do soon... so... the question is, in what way can the requirements be met with something that they will do?

If you think that coders have the ability not to be interrupted by griefers while working... *sigh*