Second Life Forums Archive

Goatman Gomez

Junior Member

Join date: 4 Aug 2004

Posts: 22

08-12-2004 05:26

How about a stand-alone app, or an add-on for client software which lets you rez & edit offline, and therefore in a more controlled (and flat!) environment?

I'm building a house onto the side of a hill at the moment, and it's a pain. I've started using the sandboxes instead, but they get really busy (amongst other things - last time I was there I was repeatedly run over by a large tank, and harassed by some self-replicating fish

) - definitely too busy to build a large structure. Also if your computer isn't mega-fast, building would be much easier and faster without all the other in-world polygons to contend with.

When finished, you could then upload the finished object into inventory.

Surely this wouldn't actually be too difficult to implement??

Or - simpler still - enable the uploading of .obj meshes from other 3D apps

Eggy Lippmann

Wiktator

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 7,939

08-12-2004 06:16

These issues pop up a lot on these forums. So you want to build offline in SL, eh?

That's like asking for IE to let you build a website and preview it. SL is just a browser, a thin client architecture. Most of the important stuff happens on the server, and without the server software, you cant do anything. Everything you see is being streamed from the server. Rezzing a cube does not create the cube on the client and then send it to the server. It sends a request for the server to build a cube at the specified position. When it's done, it's streamed to you along with all other changes that happened in the world since then.
What you're asking is for LL to release the server or bundle its functionality with the client. The first one is planned, although it will be a long time before it actually happens. Say, years. The second alternative is just silly.
As for your other suggestion, it's simply not possible to import meshes , at all, ever. You would need some really freaky AI to recognize primitive shapes in the mesh and build some approximation of it. The reason why SL works is because nothing is a mesh. You dont download a spheric or cubic mesh, you dowload a few numbers describing the type of primitive (box, sphere, torus...), its size, position, rotation, all of those things you see on the editing interface.
Streaming meshes would be a bit of a pain in the bandwidth department. This parametric model system is what makes SL feasible on modern hardware.

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Goatman Gomez

Junior Member

Join date: 4 Aug 2004

Posts: 22

08-12-2004 06:45

OK - I get all that. I was actually aware that all editing is done on the server anyway.

What I was actually suggesting is that LL create a client-side app which amounts to nothing more that a very simple 3D editing package (which they obviously already have the code for). It wouldn't involve bundling all functionality with the client - just a very very small part of it. I still reckon that with all their obvious expertise, this would be a relatively easy thing to do.

Eggy Lippmann

Wiktator

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 7,939

08-12-2004 06:47

How about helping those who are coding their own?

http://metaverse.sourceforge.net

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Goatman Gomez

Junior Member

Join date: 4 Aug 2004

Posts: 22

08-12-2004 06:51

From: someone

Originally posted by Eggy Lippmann
How about helping those who are coding their own?
http://metaverse.sourceforge.net

Because I like to sit on my backside and let everyone else do the hard work

Eggy Lippmann

Wiktator

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 7,939

08-12-2004 07:07

Hahahaha welcome to the club!

Seriously though, all input is appreciated, even if you dont know how to code or dont have the time to contribute, check it out just the same and post something in the forums.

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Strife Onizuka

Moonchild

Join date: 3 Mar 2004

Posts: 5,887

08-12-2004 08:08

alright when i have some time i'll come play in the metaverse

_____________________

Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river.
- Cyril Connolly

Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence.
- James Nachtwey

Alpha Zaius

llLol()

Join date: 13 Mar 2004

Posts: 1,187

08-12-2004 08:13

get scITE from sl.sdfjkl.org
It Roxxors!

--Alpha

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Goatman Gomez

Junior Member

Join date: 4 Aug 2004

Posts: 22

08-12-2004 08:14

From: someone

Originally posted by Eggy Lippmann
Hahahaha welcome to the club!
Seriously though, all input is appreciated, even if you dont know how to code or dont have the time to contribute, check it out just the same and post something in the forums.

Will do - it all looks very interesting.

Wraith Jensen

I can walk thru walls....

Join date: 8 Aug 2004

Posts: 130

08-12-2004 09:20

I was thinking about this, too. But what I was pondering was having the ability to "go private" while still connected to the server. Essentially, what I mean is that by clicking a button or goimg through a portal, you enter a micro-universe where nobody else can see or hear you, and you can't see or hear anybody else.

However, the more I think about it, the more I think that we should keep SL's construction the way it is.

Why? I get great ideas while roaming the sandbox.

_____________________

Eggy Lippmann

Wiktator

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 7,939

08-12-2004 09:43

There are invisible simulators. Private islands and special linden sims. You can appear offline while you are on them.
A lot of people have requested a privacy feature and LL might be implementing it in a future version though it certainly isnt a priority. Right now they are busy debugging all the new features and porting SL to Havok2.

_____________________

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Goatman Gomez

Junior Member

Join date: 4 Aug 2004

Posts: 22

08-12-2004 10:09

From: someone

Originally posted by Wraith Jensen
I was thinking about this, too. But what I was pondering was having the ability to "go private" while still connected to the server. Essentially, what I mean is that by clicking a button or goimg through a portal, you enter a micro-universe where nobody else can see or hear you, and you can't see or hear anybody else.

However, the more I think about it, the more I think that we should keep SL's construction the way it is.

Why? I get great ideas while roaming the sandbox.

Aaah maybe that's more what I'm talking about - probably better than my solution. Maybe if you could go somewhere totally flat and neutral, with no other stuff - like your own tiny little corner of the universe. Same effect I suppose, but with less programming.

I agree about the sandbox though. It's like a giant science lab. With mad people.

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Goatman Gomez Junior Member Join date: 4 Aug 2004 Posts: 22	08-12-2004 05:26 How about a stand-alone app, or an add-on for client software which lets you rez & edit offline, and therefore in a more controlled (and flat!) environment? I'm building a house onto the side of a hill at the moment, and it's a pain. I've started using the sandboxes instead, but they get really busy (amongst other things - last time I was there I was repeatedly run over by a large tank, and harassed by some self-replicating fish ) - definitely too busy to build a large structure. Also if your computer isn't mega-fast, building would be much easier and faster without all the other in-world polygons to contend with. When finished, you could then upload the finished object into inventory. Surely this wouldn't actually be too difficult to implement?? Or - simpler still - enable the uploading of .obj meshes from other 3D apps
Eggy Lippmann Wiktator Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 7,939	08-12-2004 06:16 These issues pop up a lot on these forums. So you want to build offline in SL, eh? That's like asking for IE to let you build a website and preview it. SL is just a browser, a thin client architecture. Most of the important stuff happens on the server, and without the server software, you cant do anything. Everything you see is being streamed from the server. Rezzing a cube does not create the cube on the client and then send it to the server. It sends a request for the server to build a cube at the specified position. When it's done, it's streamed to you along with all other changes that happened in the world since then. What you're asking is for LL to release the server or bundle its functionality with the client. The first one is planned, although it will be a long time before it actually happens. Say, years. The second alternative is just silly. As for your other suggestion, it's simply not possible to import meshes , at all, ever. You would need some really freaky AI to recognize primitive shapes in the mesh and build some approximation of it. The reason why SL works is because nothing is a mesh. You dont download a spheric or cubic mesh, you dowload a few numbers describing the type of primitive (box, sphere, torus...), its size, position, rotation, all of those things you see on the editing interface. Streaming meshes would be a bit of a pain in the bandwidth department. This parametric model system is what makes SL feasible on modern hardware. _____________________ Help us document Second Life history at http://slhistory.org!
Goatman Gomez Junior Member Join date: 4 Aug 2004 Posts: 22	08-12-2004 06:45 OK - I get all that. I was actually aware that all editing is done on the server anyway. What I was actually suggesting is that LL create a client-side app which amounts to nothing more that a very simple 3D editing package (which they obviously already have the code for). It wouldn't involve bundling all functionality with the client - just a very very small part of it. I still reckon that with all their obvious expertise, this would be a relatively easy thing to do.
Eggy Lippmann Wiktator Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 7,939	08-12-2004 06:47 How about helping those who are coding their own? http://metaverse.sourceforge.net _____________________ Help us document Second Life history at http://slhistory.org!
Goatman Gomez Junior Member Join date: 4 Aug 2004 Posts: 22	08-12-2004 06:51 From: someone Originally posted by Eggy Lippmann How about helping those who are coding their own? http://metaverse.sourceforge.net Because I like to sit on my backside and let everyone else do the hard work
Eggy Lippmann Wiktator Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 7,939	08-12-2004 07:07 Hahahaha welcome to the club! Seriously though, all input is appreciated, even if you dont know how to code or dont have the time to contribute, check it out just the same and post something in the forums. _____________________ Help us document Second Life history at http://slhistory.org!
Strife Onizuka Moonchild Join date: 3 Mar 2004 Posts: 5,887	08-12-2004 08:08 alright when i have some time i'll come play in the metaverse _____________________ Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river. - Cyril Connolly Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence. - James Nachtwey
Alpha Zaius llLol() Join date: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 1,187	08-12-2004 08:13 get scITE from sl.sdfjkl.org It Roxxors! --Alpha _____________________ > My Store <
Goatman Gomez Junior Member Join date: 4 Aug 2004 Posts: 22	08-12-2004 08:14 From: someone Originally posted by Eggy Lippmann Hahahaha welcome to the club! Seriously though, all input is appreciated, even if you dont know how to code or dont have the time to contribute, check it out just the same and post something in the forums. Will do - it all looks very interesting.
Wraith Jensen I can walk thru walls.... Join date: 8 Aug 2004 Posts: 130	08-12-2004 09:20 I was thinking about this, too. But what I was pondering was having the ability to "go private" while still connected to the server. Essentially, what I mean is that by clicking a button or goimg through a portal, you enter a micro-universe where nobody else can see or hear you, and you can't see or hear anybody else. However, the more I think about it, the more I think that we should keep SL's construction the way it is. Why? I get great ideas while roaming the sandbox. _____________________
Eggy Lippmann Wiktator Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 7,939	08-12-2004 09:43 There are invisible simulators. Private islands and special linden sims. You can appear offline while you are on them. A lot of people have requested a privacy feature and LL might be implementing it in a future version though it certainly isnt a priority. Right now they are busy debugging all the new features and porting SL to Havok2. _____________________ Help us document Second Life history at http://slhistory.org!
Goatman Gomez Junior Member Join date: 4 Aug 2004 Posts: 22	08-12-2004 10:09 From: someone Originally posted by Wraith Jensen I was thinking about this, too. But what I was pondering was having the ability to "go private" while still connected to the server. Essentially, what I mean is that by clicking a button or goimg through a portal, you enter a micro-universe where nobody else can see or hear you, and you can't see or hear anybody else. However, the more I think about it, the more I think that we should keep SL's construction the way it is. Why? I get great ideas while roaming the sandbox. Aaah maybe that's more what I'm talking about - probably better than my solution. Maybe if you could go somewhere totally flat and neutral, with no other stuff - like your own tiny little corner of the universe. Same effect I suppose, but with less programming. I agree about the sandbox though. It's like a giant science lab. With mad people.