What do you think of this JIRA proposal ?

http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-937

I hope this is not against the forum rules to post this. If so, then I humbly apologize and would ask for its immediate locking.

I'm going to do my best to be a mature adult and not get defensive about your feedback, since this is my proposal. Actually, I will not respond to any posts unless you ask a legitimate question for clarification. I do not wish to debate this. Thank you in advance for your feedback, sincerely.


Steve

why would anyone want to buy a private sim only to sell it off to individuals?

Then it becomes mainland basically

People can buy full mainland sims, then sell those off, in effect doing what you are describing, except on mainland

I am not sure I quite understand why you think this needs to be done

(not flaming, just confused heh)

Private islands offer land controls that the mainland does not. I do not understand why private islands have to force one person in the role of landlord. That is the current system.

yes but would you want multiple ppl living around you, being able to control the estate? in effect that is what would happen would it not?

I am still a little confused as to why you think private should be handled like main

then it just becomes main doesn't it?

You would still be able to buy a private island and allow others to live there but maintain control. You would lease the land instead of selling it off. The renters would belong to a group. This option would preserve the current zoning practices.

The other option is that, yes, private islands become like mainland.

The positive aspect is that it would give consumers protection they currently don't have, it would stop L$1 sales and it would enhance trust.

The negative is that it would make covenants meaningless.

Steve, I had to reread several times and I'm still not sure, but let me see if I'm getting this correctly. I'm basing this on what I think you are saying in this thread not the JIRA.

You would like a person to be able to buy an estate and set up zoning, etc. Then when people lease the lots the individual lot owners will then take ownership of their land just as they would if they lived on the mainland. Basically, not having to worry about the Sim owner suddenly vanishing and losing everything yet still maintaining the covenent that they bought into.

Am I understanding this correctly?

I'm not an IT person so I am at a handicap here. I would like private islands to have 2 options:
1- Same as now (on edit: meaning, that you can RENT out portions of the private island to renters), or

2- You can buy your own slice of an island and have full land controls, and be the "owner" of it only accountable to LL.

Option #1 could be accomplished by leasing the island out to businesses and individuals and they join a group, instead of buying parcels. (on edit: Only Option #1 would have Land Covenants. Option #2 would be exactly like mainland)

Bottom line: Get the middleman landlord out of private islands. Make only LL accountable to land buyers, UNLESS you want to rent from a landlord who owns the entire private island.

on edit: Thank you for that clarifying question, Bradley !

This sounds very vague, Steve. Can you provide more detail about how you see this working?

Do you intend the estate owner to still have some control over the land even after it is sold? If so, specifically which powers would they retain? And if not, how would this be different than current mainland sims?

I envision a sim being sold with one of two options happening to the parcels.

Option #1- PURE RENTAL: The sim is sold to one person who then is able to rent out portions of the sim. The renters would have no ownership rights but would have the full land controls. This is a strict rental only option. The renter would have to belong to a group to utilize the land controls. This option would allow for Land Covenants.

Option #2- The sim is sold to one person who, like mainland, then chops up the island and allows others to buy the land just like mainland. However, unlike mainland, the parcels would have the full land controls. Also, unlike the current system, the parcel owners would ONLY be accountable to Linden Lab. There would be no more "landlord-ish" type person who can take away their land at any moment for any reason. Under this option, the original purchaser of the sim would have no power or influence over the parcel purchaser, just like mainland. This option would not allow for any Land Covenants whatsoever.

Is this clearer ? With Option #2, the quasi-landlord is totally out of the picture, and the situation is only between the ultimate island land purchaser and LL.

LL actually did something like what you're proposing. They auctioned off whole blocks of land (I think 10, 20 and 40 sims) in one go, and gave the buyer a week to terraform them however they chose. After the week, the land was frozen and treated exactly like other mainland.

I don't think it makes any sense to treat your proposal like private estates that can be treated like mainland for sales. You'd be better to treat it like mainland that can be customised by whoever orders it.

Oh, and as a rental landlord, option 1 doesn't work for me. I want each resident to have their land in their name.

I posted the following as a comment on the proposal:

I think I understand what the OP's basic goal is: to give greater protection to island residents from unscrupulous landlords. I think that's a good idea!

I don't think that the details, though, as proposed by the OP, would accomplish this. "Option 2" would do the job, of course, by getting the original purchaser out of the picture once the parcel is resold...but that would just make islands the same as mainland, subject to the same lack of zoning...which creates its own problems.

What the OP really wants, I think, is some form of enforceable covenant. Which raises the question, "how do you enforce the covenant, and who will enforce it, or resolve disputes?"

I don't see any way to do this except through the use of a third party...an arbitrator, maybe. But I don't see LL getting into that business, given their very strong position of noninvolvement with resident affairs. Maybe some sort of "island owners association" could be formed, with members having votes in proportion to their landholdings. It would be, in fact, a form of resident-run government.

A government is not necessarily a bad idea. They seem to arise more or less spontaneously among any group of more than a few hundred people. But there are many potential evils, and the residents of SL are an awfully darned independent lot. Many would be unwilling to accept any limitations on their freedom in the name of "the public good". The mainlanders, in particular, love their independence. "If you don't like it", they say, "buy an island and run things the way you want. But don't bother ME."

With the mainland/island system, the islands provide an outlet to absorb any government-creating impetus. The only problem is that it leaves the small purchaser, the guy who buys an island plot, at the mercy of a single owner, and no recourse if that owner is a scoundrel.

Sorry...early morning philosophical rambling. I'm going to shut up and go shopping.

This sounds exactly like the current mainland, but you say "unlike mainland, the parcels would have the full land controls." What exactly do you mean by that -- what controls would the parcel owner have that they don't have now?

I ask because most of the estate owner controls are not appropriate for someone who does not own the whole sim.

bumpies

My vision is that each parcel owner would have only limited land controls specific to his or her own parcel.

Specifics, Steve... we can't tell you what we think of your proposal if you won't tell us what it is!

You said "Unlike mainland, the parcels would have the full land controls." So, what specific land controls will the parcel owners have that they don't have on the mainland now?

On an island, you have 1) parcel cleanup with autoreturn; 2) security (ban lines); 3) terraforming ability; 4) media controls for audio and video; 5) a whole lot of trivial things that I'm too lazy to list lol A photo is below of land controls:

Steve, the only differences that matter are terraforming ability, and who the money goes to. Mainland parcel owners have full control over those options you posted in the picture. What exactly are you talking about?

Cristalle's right, Steve. Mainland parcels already have all that (although admittedly terraform on most sims is limited to +/- 4m). The picture you've posted is exactly what I see for my mainland parcels.

Err, never mind, this proposal will never go anywhere. I'm deleting it. Sorry for wasting time.

Refine it Steve, you're onto something with protection of consumer rights. Maybe if there was a transfer fee applicable based on the size of the parcel it could run.

For example if you're buying a complete island there's a $100 transfer fee. Maybe the transfer fee could be done on a sliding scale dependent upon the size of the parcel.

I thought you were going to angle this so that a avatar can sell a estate region for L$ and actually have it transferred "as is". This would be a great addition to the options.

As for treating Islands like mainland, that won't happen for a long time. However, I cannot see why LL must handle all island transfers and allowing one or the other avatar in the sales transaction to potentially be scammed. Allowing island sales to be tier transferred would help eliminate fraudulent activity.

As for no additional bonus tier when owning an entire region island, I agree, 10% bonus would certainly be great and fair. It would encourage mainland ownership by responsible island owners.