Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE

llThreadCollection() - Voting/Rating/Dwelling...

Tiger Crossing
The Prim Maker
Join date: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,560
08-26-2003 15:49
I've been reading a number of the long threads about game mechanics that dangle from various Linden postings, and I had some thoughts about rating and voting. Here is a snapshot of a version of Second Life that I imagined. It's purely my own derangement, not something that has any true chance of being implemented. I'm mostly putting it out here for you to shoot holes in. :)

And so it begins:

1) I right-click on a OBJECT and find that (Rate...) is a choice. It brings up a sub-pie-menu with with three choices:

1a) (Rate BUILDER) casts a vote for the quality of the 3D build. If the object clicked is set No-Modify, then the person that originally made it gets the vote. If the current owner is allowed to make changes, he or she gets the vote. So the person who probably put the most effort in the construction gets the credit. This takes about half of the purpose of the voting poles. [Example, if someone has a really cool chair in their abode, you can rate it and the person who made it, wherever they are, gets the credit.]

1b) (Rate SCRIPTER), which is only available if the object clicked has any scripts attached to it, casts a vote for the behavior of the object. Like the Rate Builder option, if the script is set No-Modify, then the person that wrote it gets the vote. If the current owner can edit it, he or she gets the vote. So the person who put the effort in the scripting gets the credit, regardless of who's property it is on, or who made the object it is attached to. This partially takes the place of the voting poles.

1c) (Rate AMBIANCE) casts a vote for the owner of the property that is clicked, or that the object that was clicked is on. This is a reward for someone that perhaps has a completely store-bought building with store-bought contents on their property, but put it together into a great hang-out or event location. This takes the place of the proposed Dwelling system, but it avoids the problem of unintentional dwelling, or intentional over-dwelling. It takes over the rest of the purpose for voting poles. It is also a reward for event coordinators that hold events on their own property. The owner of the property does not need to be present, however, which is good for self-running events. (For event coordinators at large, see 2c.)


2) Right click on an AVATAR and (Rate...) is a choice. It brings up a sub-pie-menu with four choices:

2a) (Rate PERSONALITY) which is the same as what we currently have for rating other players on the way they behave in the game. Whether this should be it's own menu so that positive AND negative ratings are allowed is something for further discussion. (Perhaps Rate Negatively is it's own entry on the pie, and brings up a window which warns against abuse and has places to rate negatively in each category. Prevents accidental negatives, and discourages abusive negatives.)

2b) (Rate HELPFULNESS) indicates that the person in question helped you in some aspect of the game. This is the reward for mentoring and helping noobs.

2c) (Rate ORGANIZATION) is an acknowledgment of a player's event coordination ability. This is for people who run events that aren't necessarily on their own property, but they are present for (to be clicked). This option might be only available if the person in question has some "Event Leader" flag checked on themselves. How this flag is set or when it is set would be a topic of further discussion. (Perhaps setting this flag puts a system-controlled attachment above their head, and anyone can turn it on at any time. Police can be on the lookout for abusers fairly easily... There's a big red arrow pointing at them... And people attending the event know who's running it.)

2d) (Rate APPEARANCE) is a general rating for the appearance of the avatar clicked much as the Rate Ambiance is a general rating for the owner of a property. The difference here is that the value from this rating is, perhaps, split. The avatar always gets the bulk of the total, but some part of it may be split between the creators of any non-modifiable attachments the avatar is wearing. So an avatar with a completely store-bought costume might only get 70% of the rating, and the designer of the costume gets the other 30%. The exact numbers would have to be the product of experimental use and further discussion.


3) Weight the frequency of votes per user. We don't want people feeling they need to go around and re-rate everything they like (or everything owned or operated by someone they like) every day! I mean, we don't. It's boring. But people WILL do it if that helps them or their friends get more in-game money. (And be bored doing it. Go figure.) But clicking once and having the vote last forever also isn't a good option, since it doesn't promote change and the improvement of old and stale creations. So a vote needs to stick around, but not forever. Nor should it start to fall immediately, because the min-maxers out there will still go round-robin-rating every day to keep the votes close to their 100% worth. Some possible options:

3a) Have a vote last at 100% strength for a set period of time. Probably one week, since that is the predominant cycle time in Second Life. After one week, the vote may either vanish or slowly fade away. (Further discussion.) Now a player that WANTS to go round-robin-rating can spread it out over a week. This is probably enough incentive to get out and about, but without the rush of a daily circuit. It's more fun.

3b) Have votes cast by the same person over and over have less direct impact on the totals. Instead have those repeat votes maintain the value of the score, and unique voters' inputs drive it upwards. So having regulars vote positively for someone helps maintain the rated level, but it's the new voters that help INCREASE the score. This gives the "Blank-Only-Clubs" incentive to entice new members in.

3c) Negative votes act only like repeat voters. They do not have a strong, direct impact on the overall score. (So the occasional malicious negative voter doesn't hurt a player's rating.) But repeated negative votes WILL lower the value over time. (And also draw police attention to the voter/votee in question.)


Whew. Okay. That's what my mind came up with. I'm sure there are holes, but hey... Sometimes new eyes can see solutions. I'm enough of an optimist that I'll voice my ideas, but enough of a pessimist not to expect much to come from them. I've woken up the next day and gone "When they HECK was I thinking!" too many times not to be prepared for it. So lay on! :)


~ Tiger Crossing
~ (Nonsanity)
Tiger Crossing
The Prim Maker
Join date: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,560
08-27-2003 20:04
Hehehe... No one is rating this thread positively or negatively. Wonder what that means...

At least, 23 hours later, I'm not saying "What they heck was I thinking?" (Or even "When the heck..." since that's what I wrote.) It all seems like it would work to me.

I rather expected some sort of reaction however. I guess everyone took one look and said "Too long! Didn't read!" :)

Should I make a short version?

~ Tiger Crossing
~ (Nonsanity)
Mark Michelson
Particle Man
Join date: 22 Jul 2003
Posts: 93
08-27-2003 23:33
I like your proposal, personally :)

Seems like you covered most of the bases.
Then again it's 2:30 AM here, I'm sleep-deprived.

And I know I didn't read this until now because I've been caught up in Burning Life :)
Tiger Crossing
The Prim Maker
Join date: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,560
08-28-2003 00:16
From: someone
And I know I didn't read this until now because I've been caught up in Burning Life :)


That I totally understand. I know that as soon as I can get my new computer assembled at home tonight (waiting for FedEx with baited breath... *sniff* scratch that... 3am-breath) I'll be rushing off to my Burning plot and try to catch up. I've only had a total of about 6 hours to work on my musical interactive sculpture so far. :(

As for the idea above, I thought up a simplification. Combine 2b and 2c, Helpfulness and Organization, into one category, which we might call "Guide". That one word encapsulates both meanings, and more. Just a snippet from Roget's Thesaurus on "guide": adviser, aide, authority, coach, confidant, consultant, counselor, director, expert, friend, guide, helper, instructor, judge, mentor, monitor, partner, teacher, tutor.

"Counselor" might be the next best word, mixing the "school counselor" meaning (adviser-teacher) with the "camp counselor" use (organizer-leader).

Why the combo? Then the current three values all players are rated in (see any calling card) can remain just three, instead of bumping up to six or seven, which might be a bigger change than the Lindens would be interested in making to the system. So Personality and Guide combine (both are Avatar-clicks). Builder and Scripter combine (both are object clicks). And Appearance and Ambiance combine (one each). I think this logical grouping would give a nice rounded distribution of the points.

Sound better with that change? Worse? ;)

~ Tiger Crossing
~ (Nonsanity)
Zana Feaver
Arkie
Join date: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 396
08-28-2003 06:59
I just wanted to say I actually think this is a pretty good idea. We do have the "given to others" category in our profiles which kind of adds to the "helpfulness" category you mention but I believe it's based purely on actually giving physical objects to people, i.e. notecards, lm's, pictures, objects, etc. And it doesn't seem to be included in the leaderboard categories. I would love to be able to rate people for helping me do things -- so many folks have been kind enough to help me figure out things I would have *never* figured out on my own. I'd like to be able to reward those folks in a way more than simply rating their behavior.

Sorry, it's early and I was up late, late, late. So if above makes no sense, just forgive me ;). I have other stuff to say about this too but the coffee mainline to my arm hasn't kicked in yet.

Zana
Grim Lupis
Dark Wolf
Join date: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 762
08-28-2003 10:11
From: someone
Originally posted by Zana Feaver
I just wanted to say I actually think this is a pretty good idea. We do have the "given to others" category in our profiles which kind of adds to the "helpfulness" category you mention but I believe it's based purely on actually giving physical objects to people, i.e. notecards, lm's, pictures, objects, etc.


Actually, I believe that's the number of rating points you've given to other people by rating them.
_____________________
Grim

"God only made a few perfect heads, the rest of them he put hair on." -- Unknown
Neil Protagonist
FX Monkey
Join date: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 346
09-05-2003 08:58
Fantastic idea, very well thought out, the implimentation of some of these ideas could be difficult from a tracking standpoint, just more things to load and god knows how well that currently goes heh. All in all I agree with everything mentioned and I think it would be a major improvement.

-Neil