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Not a bot

Twisted Pharaoh
if ("hello") {"hey hey";}
Join date: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 315
04-19-2007 11:28
Non-Bots could be detected by an optional visual test (such as the ones in emails) at logging (or anytime when necessary) and flagged as such. This could be required to enter lands or perform some operations (like sitting on a camp chair).

My concern is avatar bots can be benevolent but also can become harmful (i.e. add a lot lag) if used in an inappropritate way.
Darien Caldwell
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,127
04-19-2007 13:05
Actually you could probably do something like this. Have a script give every AV that TPs in a picture, and ask them to say what the object pictured is in Roomchat. If they don't answer, TP them home. (now I just need to get to work on that moving kiosk...)
Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
04-19-2007 13:16
There are some interesting philosophical questions relating to this, though not ones that I would expect to really intrude on detecting bots within SL or not. Whilst it would be terrific if SL did actually produce a bot that passed the Turing test simply so that it could sit on camping chairs, I think it unlikely to happen.

I'm sure, though, something like KittenAuth could be adapted for SL.
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
04-19-2007 13:24
Bots should have a seperate account type. And bot runners should be required to register as such.

Even if its the honor system this would be an improvement over now.
Winter Ventura
Eclectic Randomness
Join date: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2,579
04-19-2007 13:57
From: Darien Caldwell
Actually you could probably do something like this. Have a script give every AV that TPs in a picture, and ask them to say what the object pictured is in Roomchat. If they don't answer, TP them home. (now I just need to get to work on that moving kiosk...)


So your solution is to spam everyone that isn't a bot...

!quit
!quit
!quit
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Twisted Pharaoh
if ("hello") {"hey hey";}
Join date: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 315
04-19-2007 14:26
Imho the best way to check an avatar is not a bot is to drop them into a labyrinth. If they make it out or if they start shouting for help they aren't bots :). Pathing is very complex, I know no program/game where it is perfect (GuildWars is close though).
Winter Ventura
Eclectic Randomness
Join date: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2,579
04-19-2007 18:52
"follow right wall"

There's almost no labyrinth or maze in existence (with non overlapping paths) that cannot be solved with this technique.
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Twisted Pharaoh
if ("hello") {"hey hey";}
Join date: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 315
04-19-2007 22:31
From: Winter Ventura
"follow right wall"

There's almost no labyrinth or maze in existence (with non overlapping paths) that cannot be solved with this technique.

You are assuming that 1) the walls dont move, 2) there is only one exit, and 3) there are no teleporters in the maze.

You could do something very simple like this:
CODE

ABCDE
1.....
2.....
3..x..
4.....
5.....

The agent starts in C3 one random wall is phantom (say west wall) the others solid, now you would determine a chess knight path from C3 to the exit, for instance A2, B4, E5, if the agent doesn't go to A2 via B3 and A3 then you make all the walls solid except a way back to C3.

It's just an example you have many ways to get this working. Of course a bot could be written that solves that maze, but now we are talking custom.
Winter Ventura
Eclectic Randomness
Join date: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2,579
04-20-2007 06:08
"ignore all walls, attempt all moves. If attempt unsuccessful, try again"

The bot's gonna get out before a human would. Humans won't usually try to walk through obvious walls.

You're assuming that a bot has to walk. What if the bot scans the sim for the nearest instance of a camping chair, and selects "sit here". Boom, out of maze, onto chair.

Every solution to this kind of thing, results in the same thing, annoying, harassing, and interrogating humans, to PROVE that they aren't this "criminal bot". From setting up fake camping chairs (which will only annoy/greif the noobs foolish enough to beleive it's actually what it claims to be) to encasing people in mazes like rats.

A "bot" doesn't need much time in your sim to do what they want, and can be "called" to a location by their owner/controller. Landing points won't work, if your enemy TP's into a place, walks through your maze as a human, then walks over to your camping chairs and TP's their bots to them. If you require some sort of "passport" attachment, the botter only needs to log into the accounts with the main client, acquire the passports, then fire the accounts back up as bots.

Every attempt to circumvent this, results in more greif, and more drama for the innocent people who are just following the rules. If the passport expires when the user logs off.. then what happens to all the humans when the sim crashes, or the client crashes? (though it never does.. right?).

in the end... what are you doing that you're so worried about bots? running a camping deal? well let's see here. You give away money for traffic. And bots, like people, produce the same amount of traffic. So what do you care who gets the money?

or were you using the camping system to try and "keep people" in front of your casino machines, or ads? Well then, all I can say is "tough luck".
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Sys Slade
Registered User
Join date: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 626
04-20-2007 06:40
Walls don't make a difference anyway. Velocity booster = phantom walls.
There's many ways to break out of a maze, and these methods will be used by both bots and humans. The only way it will differentiate between bots and humans is that humans wont bother returning to your sim.
Who wants to go somewhere that tries to prevent them doing what they are there for?
Twisted Pharaoh
if ("hello") {"hey hey";}
Join date: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 315
04-20-2007 06:48
From: Winter Ventura
"ignore all walls, attempt all moves. If attempt unsuccessful, try again"

This is called an heuristic, though an heuristic doesn't necessarily work, specially if the environment keeps changing. You are assuming that if you sit on the chair you are going to get paid but I'm assuming nothing: I'm scanning each step the agent and if it doesn't go where it is expected then the chair simply won't pay anything. You could teleport but the chair wouldn't work still, and teleport can be blocked anyway.

There is no grief or drama, it's a maze game, if you make it throught the maze you have access to the camping chair, if you don't then the chair won't work :). I know a bot could be coded to succeed but then it would be a custom work, though any slight change in the maze rules would break it. Humans are adaptative complex systems, bots aren't.
Darien Caldwell
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,127
04-20-2007 13:32
From: Winter Ventura
So your solution is to spam everyone that isn't a bot...

!quit
!quit
!quit

sorry I guess I figured eveyone would understand the absurdity of what I was saying. It's a joke :)
Draco18s Majestic
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 2,744
04-20-2007 15:44
From: Winter Ventura
"follow right wall"

There's almost no labyrinth or maze in existence (with non overlapping paths) that cannot be solved with this technique.


CODE

# = wall
. = floor
S= Start
F = Finish

###########
#.........#
#.###.###.#
#.#.....#.#
#.#.###.#.#
#.#.#F#.#.#
#.#.#.#.#.#
#.#.....#.#
#.#######.#
#....S....#
###########


This maze can not be solved by "follow left" OR "follow right"
Tod69 Talamasca
The Human Tripod ;)
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,107
04-20-2007 18:22
From: Darien Caldwell
sorry I guess I figured eveyone would understand the absurdity of what I was saying. It's a joke :)


I did!!! :D