See (meters) distance override

You fly over someone's land... all of a sudden, the world fills with fog!... you keep flying and the fog instantly recedes to where it was before.

NASTY. I want to be able to choose whether or not to obey this setting. Perhaps a small icon in the HUD could show whether a draw distance less than 512 meters is specified, and if you click it you can turn off the override.

Fog is a kind word, it looks more like smog! I hate that too, good idea.

I disagree.

Although its not as uniform as I would like it there is a *reason* we limit draw distance in DarkWood. Actually two of them.

1 is atmosphere. The place seems larger as you walk around if you can't see it all from one spot. Also the fog, I think, adds a nice element to DarkWood.

2nd is lag. Not individual lag, server lag. For each person with a draw distance of 256, the server must send generally the entire sim to. Thats a lot of data to send. We do hold, and plan to hold, lots of large events with lots of people. Limiting the draw distance is a way of reducing server lag. It reduces the amount of data the server is required to send to each computer. That means less computations, less network traffic. Whether your computer can handle it or not isn't part of the concern. Even if I knew every person's computer could handle a draw distance of 512 I would still limit this setting. Because the server simply does not handle sending 512m of draw ditance (the entire sim) to 25 people very well.

Why can't you simply suggest that I turn it down rather than forcing me? What makes you such an extraordinary person that you should have the right to reach into my client and tell me how far I can see?

If you think forcing people to have low draw distances is going to do anything, I'd like to see some scientific evidence to back it up. For all anyone knows, having a bunch of avatars sitting in one area continuously twitching back and forth like autistic mongoloids is what does it.

Edit: I will even help you set up this experiment if you can get the people for it.

<shrug> What makes you such an extraordinary person that you should have the right to set the mood for a theme I work so hard for?

And I havn't done scientific experiments, that information is based on discussions with lindens and what would seem common sense. Sending information for an area with 4times the radius (16times the area - from 64m to 256m draw distance) to each person makes sense to be harder on the servers. Doesn't it?

And if it was an option and I just asked, then maybe 1% of the people would do it.

And please, really don't be so rude to me about my opinion. That same line about an extraordinary person could be applied to anyone who turns off building, scripts, set home /landmark, or damage enabled. really.

I think what I want out of my personal user experience overrides your desire to control my view distance. Please understand, flying around and having a bunch of abrupt depth changes is something I find visually nasty. It breaks the metaphor, provides another reminder that I'm looking at something computer-generated.

Perhaps what you really need is an environmental fog control. I don't mind fog, per se, but the abrupt depth changes are downright hideous.

It may be, but it may also be that the real killer is all the constant gesturing. Without an actual scientific experiment this is nothing but conjecture.

Hence the idea of making a small icon in the HUD that we can turn on or off with a mouse click. Some people would be willing to turn off the override (assuming they had it on to begin with) by going through menus, others wouldn't. A small visual reminder that they can use as a toggle is the best of both worlds.

Actually, I don't think those are quite the same as visibility.

1. Building
   I don't want people leaving crap hanging around my joint.
   
   
2. Outside Scripts
   I don't want griefers leaving little logic bombs on my property, or wearing them in. I am so tired of getting whacked two sims over by some overzealous tool who just got a baseball bat.
   
   
3. Set Home/Landmark
   I've built a protected structure here and I don't want someone to figure out some way in and then have the convenience of just teleporting past my defenses.
   
   
4. Damage Enabled
   These definitely have their place, i.e. Jessie, Gibson. They also let me put up a sign saying, "No Trespassing, Intruders Will Be Shot On Sight," and actually have a method of backing it up.

Does it seem insulting to you? Perhaps your ideology and mine are so far apart that it inspires me to challenge you with that particular statement. What you have reason to see as pragmatic, I have reason to see as fascistic. Flying through these scattered zones, and having the view distance change abruptly, is hideous to me. So I propose a little icon, perhaps translucent and unobtrusive most of the time, but then when you go over land where your view distance is greater than that set by the landowner it could start glowing. The override could be turned on/off with a simple click. If there are 15 people at an event, and you ask them to turn off their overrides, I believe most of them will (especially if you throw in something about view depth causing lag.)

Actually the view distance is just the same as what you mentioned - the undertone is the same. "This is my land, this is how I want it." You set your land to no fly because it is your land that is how you want it. You set it to no build because it is your land that is how you want it. I set the view distance to 64 because it is my land that is how I want it.

If it disturbes you so much then don't visit that land.

See distance is window dressing. The other things are actually relevant to game play. I still don't see why I have to tolerate abrupt distance changes, and I still say it's hideous, and I still say I should have the final choice as to whether or not to obey it. Especially when I'm just passing through.

I personally like the Darkwood atmosphere as intended by the landowners, as well as other such places I've stumbled across. It isn't hideous, it's atmospheric.

While we're at it, why don't we just load everything within line of sight at once? I have a rocket pack, there's no reason why I should have to wait for things to rez when I do the jump-forward trick and land two sims away. Except for the technical limitations, of course. Which I see every time, as visual results. Is that an actual scientific experiment?

How is a foggy area any more "visually jarring" than the inevitable rezzing, even travelling at normal speeds? If you don't like fog, avoid those areas, don't vote. That's a real show of your personal preference: voting with your feet.

Things along this line I would be in favor of:

- A delay before the change takes effect if it will reduce 'flickering' when flying over someones land

- Changing it to a gradual change, like the fog rolling in.

Interesting discussion about the "fog" areas. It took me a while to figure out what people had done to cause this. At first I thought it was a local defect in the sim or my viewer. Then after I discovered that this is a land option I interpreted it as a message to "stay away" because all too often no-outside-scripts is set in the same area.

And now I find out this is actually intended as a means of making the server more friendly and atmospheric? Wow. That blows me away. This is the first time I ever thought of being blinded as something friendly to have happen.

Edit: I had the same impression back when Darkwood was set to Damage and No-Fly. These basically said to me: "Go away. We don't want you here."

And commenting on the question of draw-distance lagging the server: I don't see how a land owner limiting the draw distance on one piece of land affects this, because when I am on either side of the Darkwood town I see the whole sim, and this only goes away when I am actually over the draw-distance limited areas.

it would be nice if only the areas that have the lower distance set were not shown to you instead of having your whole view distance snapped back. i agree its annoying but there are advantages as ama pointed out. maybe this would make it less annoying.

A gradual fade would definitely be nice (the more gradual the better). It would also be nice if there was a way to generate actual fog (i.e. something specifically supported and not just llMakeExplosion() or something).

Basically, what's wanted is a way to make area fog. That way, a section of a sim can be in permanent, low-lying (height adjustable?) fog. Views of the rest of the sim would remain unobstructed, and flyers would pass over the fog and not through it. And the section of the sim in question would be nicely shrouded in atmospheric mist...

~ Tiger Crossing
~ (Nonsanity)

The "low to the ground" part would make it very realistic, you'd be able to fly in from above and look into a fog bank.

I've driven up a mountain on an overcast morning, through fog, and emerged in sunshine. It's really trippy to look down on the fog and see the other mountain peaks floating above the fog like islands.