Rant #3: Privately controlled airspace - “Common Sense Revolts at the idea”
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Oracle Omega
MMORPG Pioneer
Join date: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 61
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08-02-2003 23:01
As background material for this rant, I’m going to cite Lawrence Lessig’s blog which sites Philip Greenspun: From: someone Lessig: …Phil tells this bizarre story about how Disney World has apparently succeeded in getting the airspace above Disney World assigned to it. Greenspun: Ever since the dawn of aviation it has been held that airspace belongs to the public and is to be regulated for the benefit of all by the FAA. This is what, for example, prevents the owner of a farm in Missouri from demanding that Delta Airlines pay him a tax every time they fly over his farm. Lessig: (… for more than 400 years) in fact, the law was that the owner of a bit of land owned not just the land, but all the land to center of the earth, and, as Blackstone put it, “to an indefinite extent, upwards.”This, of course, created a problem once the history of aviation was born. For obviously, if I own all the space above my land, then companies like United are just napsterizing my property as they fly above my land. The Supreme Court finally resolved this matter in 1946. The Causby’s, North Carolina farmers, complained because military aircraft were causing their chickens to fly in panic to their death as they smashed into the walls. The Causby’s claimed “trespass” and demanded the military stop flying over their land. The Supreme Court rejected the argument that airplanes trespass. As Justice Douglas wrote for the Court, Supreme Court: “[The] doctrine has no place in the modern world. The air is a public highway, as Congress has declared. Were that not true, every transcontinental flight would subject the operator to countless trespass suits. Common sense revolts at the idea. To recognize such private claims to the airspace would clog these highways, seriously interfere with their control and development in the public interest, and transfer into private ownership that to which only the public has a just claim. “ Just like the ancient code of RL property being obsolete when the airplane was invented, the SL land option called ‘Outside Scripts’ disabling all objects ‘all the way up to heaven’ is a Byzantine restriction which will ultimately destroy all air travel and unfairly restrict creativity for all kinds of objects. As Justice William O. Douglas said: “Common sense revolts at the idea.”As with all my rants, I’d like to make a concrete suggestion: Limit the effect of the Outside Scripts land attribute to a height of 50 meters above land/sea level.Comments? Oracle Omega |
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Dave Zeeman
Master Procrastinator
Join date: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 1,025
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08-02-2003 23:49
Then a griefer comes along and puts a scripted object that drops other objects every second, 51 meters above land.
In all due seriousness, nobody is such an idiot that they would grief in this manner, and get away with it without some sort of action being taken against them. So Oracle, I like your idea.
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Oracle Omega
MMORPG Pioneer
Join date: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 61
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08-02-2003 23:53
From: someone Originally posted by Dave Zeeman
Then a griefer comes along and puts a scripted object that drops other objects every second, 51 meters above land.
This is a common misunderstanding of how it works: In this example the dropped objects would become useless after they fell 1 meter, doing no harm (other than cluttering the sky, a problem we already have.  ) What a waste of resources for the greifer. Oracle Omega |
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Ama Omega
Lost Wanderer
Join date: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 1,770
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08-03-2003 00:24
Don't physical objects remain physical even in no script areas? Or does physics turn off?
I don't think that is the best solution. Too many loop holes.
The no script feature was a highly requested feature for a long time in beta to help stop griefers.
I have another idea. A new list of people, like the muted list, called blocked to replace/augment the no script feature. Disable all blocked residents scripts over your land, automatically boot blocked residents from your land and offer a button to delete all objects over your land owned by blocked residents.
This is a specific targeted feature to stop griefing. As long as a person doesn't specifically block you, then you are ok.
Also I think there should to be mechanisms to detect land where a script will cease functioning. Such as....
integer llScriptsBlocked(vector loc);
Perhaps has a 10m range or whatever and returns false most of the time, but true if the land under that location will stop the script from running.
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Bob Brightwillow
Technologist
Join date: 7 Feb 2003
Posts: 110
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08-03-2003 13:14
I'll back any proposal -- Omega's and Ama's are both fine -- that prevents my objects from getting stuck as they fly through someone else's space. Very annoying.
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David Cartier
Registered User
Join date: 8 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,018
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Re: Rant #3: Privately controlled airspace - “Common Sense Revolts at the idea”
08-04-2003 09:37
DISNEY was having real problems with area Baptists and other bizarre religious cults flying offensive messages over the parks - not to mention the continuing worry over the carnage should some disaffected Palestinian drop a case of darts or worse over Main Street USA. Themed Sims should have the right to block non harmonious objects from their skies - BUT - in all other situations I agree with you that a total block of flight over any land is wrong. An area of control that covers the travelling distance of regular conversation ought to be sufficient protection for anyone, no matter how paranoid they be. From: someone Originally posted by Oracle Omega As background material for this rant, I’m going to cite Lawrence Lessig’s blog which sites Philip Greenspun:
Just like the ancient code of RL property being obsolete when the airplane was invented, the SL land option called ‘Outside Scripts’ disabling all objects ‘all the way up to heaven’ is a Byzantine restriction which will ultimately destroy all air travel and unfairly restrict creativity for all kinds of objects. As Justice William O. Douglas said: “Common sense revolts at the idea.”
As with all my rants, I’d like to make a concrete suggestion:
Limit the effect of the Outside Scripts land attribute to a height of 50 meters above land/sea level.
Comments?
Oracle Omega |
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Charlie Omega
Registered User
Join date: 2 Dec 2002
Posts: 755
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08-04-2003 10:52
I mostly agree with how this thread is going, definatly agree with Ama, but...
Say someone wants to build a 200m building (and can actually afford it lol) then what would happen with a 50m above land/sea level work, could then griefers place objects inside buildings and be able to cause problems in the build at 50.001m up to 200m?
I think a mod of said 50m restriction should include height over landowners structures/objects.
Otherwise yes having a banned scripted object list would be nice but why not along with the banned list have a ban all with an exception list.
Like say I want all scripts disabled over my land but like Oracle's Blimp so I can set the land to allow just his blimp over it.
Or another idea.....
like the no-fly zones..
If you fly over these areas you still fly, but the instant you turn off fly you have to walk off to fly again.
Why not the same for scripts. If they enter the area with no scripts, why not have it allow them to continue what they are doing, but once they stop they cant restart.
So then that way a plane or blimp can fly through with no problems, just cant stop.
Also a "no scripts" warning on screen like the no fly would be nice.
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Water Rogers
Registered User
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 286
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08-05-2003 03:34
From: someone If you fly over these areas you still fly, but the instant you turn off fly you have to walk off to fly again.
Why not the same for scripts. If they enter the area with no scripts, why not have it allow them to continue what they are doing, but once they stop they cant restart.
I see a somewhat loophole here.. but for the most part it's a great suggestion. Remember when the Linden's thought that making welcome a No-Fly was such a great idea... well, even if you stop your avatar, you could still float. So the way a lot of people got around this was to just enter into the area and float above ground (who wants to walk when you can fly!); This is to illustrate a point... how would the "land" know when a script stops doing what is being done. Are you suggesting once the sctript exits that particular state, it couldn't enter into another? I see a loophole already with timer() alone off the top of my head. Perhaps we can think about this on a user level, rather then being defined. You have your radio buttons to no-edit land (which I belive a group option is highly needed, but a different post), the safe, the no-build, and your outside scripts. What if you were able to set that Distance in Height as to how far the "no outside scripts" could go. Afterall.. WE are the landowners, and it's predetermined that all the sky above that land is our porperty also. So why not allow us to determine how far, and what, and who. Land editing tools need a major facelift IMO. --Water |
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Madox Kobayashi
Madox Labs R&D
Join date: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 402
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08-05-2003 04:04
From: someone WE are the landowners, and it's predetermined that all the sky above that land is our porperty also. This is not predetermined - this is actually what is being discussed.
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Madox Kobayashi
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Huns Valen
Don't PM me here.
Join date: 3 May 2003
Posts: 2,749
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08-05-2003 04:16
Add an API call: llSetNoScriptEvent(integer distance) Add an event: no_script(vector v) { llInstantMessage(llGetOwner(), "WARNING: Within "+(string)dist+" meters of no-script land at vector "+(string)v+"."  ; // do stuff } Add to land edit: The capability of selecting names and groups, and choosing to either let them or not let them run scripts, or to block all outside scripts altogether. Adding these things would increase CPU load, of course. |