Suggestion: Remove Free Memberships, create avatar particle limits!

I have been a dedicated SL resident since 1.7. Yes, that's right, 1.7. The version in which you could be assured that your teleport would work, and that your clothing wouldn't load for 15 minutes upon startup. Frankly, I've remained silent as many, many changes have been implemented in SecondLife (some for the better, some for worse!). I've just about had it - not so much with LL, but with the residents of this virtual world.

My first suggestion - Revoke free memberships and reinstate the one-time fee for Basic! Of course, give free members a one-month period in which to upgrade. Reinstating the fee will cut down on the growth rate of SecondLife, and for some that's a good thing, and for others a bad thing. Frankly, the amount of load that's being put on the asset server and grid in general by the massive influx of free members is driving many, many premium members - the same people who are the chief income source for SecondLife - away from SecondLife. Ever since the 1.18 release, I haven't been able to move without choppy graphics, as if my avatar was experiencing a myoclonic seizure!

My second suggestion - Create and enforce avatar particle limits! For the love of $diety, the last thing the grid and the clients need are "bling" scripts and particle spammers. They're flat out annoying, for one, and for even a decent computer they place a burden on the graphics hardware and decrease performance.

I wouldn't be surprised if these suggestions went unread. I don't know what LL is trying to achieve by encouraging this massive influx of freeloaders who make up a large portion of the populous and a very small portion of the income - whatever it is, it's degrading the experience of premium members and driving the grid into a death spiral.

i started in 1.5.9 and we remember 2 totally different 1.7's



agreed



and yet ive noticed absolutely 0 difference in performance



you can just turn them down in your preferences, noone is twising your arm to leave them up at 2048 at once



you should know that by now



simple, money, if you have "more users" you can attract bigger companies to invest tons more than any average user ever would ... least thats their reasoning, problem is that the user number is a totally false, overinflated scam

As was previously suggested, you can manually turn down particles if your computer cant handle them.

As far as kicking out basic members, you're crazy. You're basicly asking LL to wipe out 85 percent of their users. Just because someone is not a premium member doesnt make them a "freeloader". I personally am a premium member, but many residents who are basic members create and sell items, rent land, and contribute greatly to SL. You think just because they dont pay LL $10 bucks a month they're a freeloader? Do you think your $10 a month makes you not? The absolute ONLY reason to be a premium member is to be a land owner. It's a must for real estate, beyond that, there's not really a NEED for someone to be a premium member. Membership fees are the "chief source of income" for Linden Lab!?!?!??!! Where do you get that idea from. I've got a news bulletin for ya, tier fees bring in alot more... Personally, I paid $70 for a one year membership, and at the moment, I pay $40 a month in tier fees. 40x12 = $480 dollars (us), which by my math is $410 more than the $70 I pay for a premium membership. Do you think your $10 a month pays for the land? It doesnt. Monthly tier fees (which, by the way, basic members who rent land pay to their landlords, who, in turn, pay Linden Lab a tier fee, which is what pays for the bandwidth that feeds vector and texture data to your PC EVERY TIME you visit a location). Campers and chair chasers are freeloaders, and are generally basic members, but NOT ALL basic members should be considered a freeloader. I think you have a misconception about what a freeloader is. Are YOU a land owner, or renter??? If not, then YOU are the freeloader, since you don't pay tier (either directly or indirectly) to Linden Lab. Which is what makes SL possible. So, I guess what I'm saying is you should understand what you're talking about before you go off on people who do not deserve it.

I have a high end PC, and I upgraded my video card, partly because of SL, and partly because it was 5 years old. If SL is too choppy on your machine, perhaps you need to consider upgrading your machine to something more current, or turn down the graphics sliders until your frame rate improves.

Your profile says you just past your 2nd aniversary in SL. One would tend to think that someone who's been around so long would understand how things work in SL.

I AM a landowner in SL, and I DO own an SL business.

By the way, my machine is a dual-core Athlon 64 3800+ with 3GB of RAM running on a fresh install of Windows XP. My graphics card is an nVidia GeForce 7300 with 128MB RAM - even my old graphics card, a 6800, could handle SL with no problem back in the day. By the way, I think you misunderstood me on the choppiness - it's not the frame rate that is the problem. I'm getting a decent framerate (20FPS in most places) but when I move, my av is constantly being moved back as if it's resisting. Even the objects that I see moving are choppy like that.

And I'm not saying KICK OUT all the Basic members. I'm saying REINSTATE what was originally a $10 sign-up fee for Basic. That way, SL can keep its members and LL has more income with which to improve the failing aspects of the grid.

Do NOT assume that I think all basic members are freeloaders. I admit that there are very outstanding basic members who contribute well to the SL community - however, I would like to see the Basic sign-up fee reinstated to both curb the influx of new users, which has a major impact on the asset/data servers and on the grid, and to create new revenue for Linden Labs.

My main point in all this is that if LindenLabs wants SL to grow and prosper and reach membership milestones, the grid and the underlying SL infrastructure should grow with it. And what do you need to buy the hardware and pay for the bandwidth for that infrastructure? You need money. Where do you get it? Tiers. Membership fees. Sign-up fees may seem small and unimportant, but when you multiply that $10 across the thousands of people who sign up as Basic members, it can go a long way.

I have a similar system (comperable processor, less memory, somewhat better graphics card) and I get far, far, far better client-side performance than you report (More than 20+ fps). Your system may be sub optimally configured, perhaps.

The rebounding usually represents a problem in the sim - it's not a client problem, its client > server lag. Are you, perchance, in a very heavily populated sim when experiencing it? If so, thats the reason, if not, have you analyzed your connection information? Heavy packet loss causes a similar effect.

Your rant on partials is mostly a moot point - even a moderate system should be able to take all the partials you can throw at it, they do *absolutely nothing* in terms of server performance or bandwidth clogging, and the tools to turn them down if for some reason your computer DOES have issues with them already exists.

LL has made it clear since they opened up registration that they're not going back. While I sympathize with your position, it's a fantasy up there with planning out your purchases post-lottery-jackpot.

Also, as someone who was around for ~8 months before 1.7 came out, I can assure you: It was a flaming pile of hippo poo. 1.5 was bad what little I remember of it, but 1.6 was rock solid (at least compared to versions that came after). Then LL attempted to change too much, too soon, and in my opinion we're still recovering.

You might look into upgrading the graphic card. its pretty low specs. You have 3 giga of memory so it would be a advantage for you to get a better graphic card.

LLABS has said they are not doing away with free accounts. infact they are speeding up the process by occuring major compnay let their users signup with freebie account to promoto their product . MANPOWER, Ben&jerry`s Icecream etc....... they know have their own island that promoto their business. Driven but users of the likes BEN & JERRY`S Ice Cream and their product users to signupo FOR FREE and play at will at the cost of the rest of us.........

usagi

Keep dreaming and complaining, Mark, but fortunately you're just spitting into the wind.

There are lots of content creators and other valid contributors who wouldn't be here if there was a fee -- not to mention folks who bring in plenty of hard cash to buy stuff. So turn down your particle limit, get a decent graphics card, and stop complaining about the majority of the residents.

LL wants MORE people in SL, not LESS.

Yeah, I'm offended by your post because I'm the kind of resident you'd rather not have in SL. And the offer to grandfather us doesn't help: you're just saying, "Well, I'll allow YOU because I must, but we don't want any MORE like you!" Well, I don't want any more like you either! Eject all members who call for a mandatory fee!

(OK, just kidding.)

1. No

2. Damn straight I do.

Seriously, who gives a s**t how long you have been a member of SL (can't always tell by birth dates anyway. Lot's of alts out there ) or how big your computer is.

Must be a guy thing.

better yet how many alts are you running at one time is a better questen to ask him.......

I pay L$1200/week for 5664m² which comes down to $18.5/month and is pretty much "at actual cost" after considering the L$ sell fees.

Compared to current rental price, that's a pretty good deal and it's likely that you don't rent a whole lot bigger than what I have, at twice the cost. Where does that difference go? It doesn't go to LL, it goes to your landlord who just pockets it.

LL also gets a much higher profit margin from any land owned by premiums (except for the large mainland owners with full a sim in tier) than it does for private estates.

When it comes to spending L$ in-world there is no way to know how much eventually makes it back to LL so you can't consider that as paying for your account at all either.

I also know a lot of people who are premium for no real reason. They don't own land, they just pay for their premium because it's perfectly normal to them to pay for their account with no questions asked.

While i agree with the original posters ideas, part of it just won't bowl over easy. LL can easily stop allowing people to create new accounts without paying for membership, but they wont. However, the part i don't think would ever work out is forcing current members to upgrade... Sure they could do it, but that will cause a HUGE uproar...

Well, the fact that there is a "totally free" way to access SL is the primary reason for the huge expansion, but lack of funds is hardly the reason for the problems LL faces. It's time, not money that slows down the expansion. Yes, I totally agree that there are asset server issues and other bugs due to the fact that LL is trying to move to fast, but forcing everyone to sign up premium would drive people away, which, from a business standpoint is bad business. I understand it's a pain when the system is not working 100 percent, but am I the only one out there that seems to understand that LL is continuously working to debug the client (and server) software, and scale it up to meet the demands of the ever growing population?

its not singing up for premium, back when they had it setup where you got a basic account for a 10$ onetime lifetime membership to SL

my main problem with that not being around anymore is greiftards not alts, i have alts under that plan and it wasnt a big deal to pay for them ...

but with grifers and other ppl who have been banned for whatever reason can just keep milling them out at will and get their asses banned again and again and again, vs with the old plan joe greifer would probally get bored well before shelling out 100 bucks just to annoy ppl

You've got a good point, Osgeld.

For the most part I seem to have forged out the flaws in my XP install (in other words, a complete reinstall) and SL runs relatively well. No more choppiness, and my framerate is up to 18 in a somewhat empty sim. For what it's worth, I'm on a cable modem with very nice upstream and downstream speeds.

Now, regarding Osgeld's comments, I completely agree. The reason why griefing is so prevalent in the grid today is attributable mostly to the presence of free, wide-open sign-ups. Another big issue that some (not I personally) argue is that free accounts completely bypass LL's age verification procedures. Back in the day (my day at least), a credit card was the only viable sign-up payment option. Sure, this wasn't the pinnacle of age verification, but it was at least somewhat effective in verifying that people were who they say they were, and going back to Osgeld's post, very effective in eliminating griefers - back then, there was *incentive* to behave in-world. $10 may seem like pocket change to some, but to a repeat griefer it can be an obstacle.

Regarding the unfortunate news that LL intends to keep SL's free signups, I feel that it will be the death of SecondLife. This might be a bad example, but I could imagine a fast food restaurant offering free food in the hopes that it would attract more patrons, but if they're flooded with customers taking them up on their offer, it makes you wonder how long they'll be able to post a profit.

I digress... I acknowledge that there are many wonderful and talented content creators in SL, and I make no attempt to slander them or cut them off in any way. But when you're dealing with hundreds of thousands (allegedly) of users, those free accounts, regardless of what they do in-world, create a resource burden, and it's up to the paying population to foot the bill when it comes to the physical and network infrastructure of SecondLife. I have been in the IT industry for five years - I make no attempt to discredit you, but I assure you that I do understand the workings of scalable database systems and server grids.

Time is not the issue - the same people who develop and maintain the SecondLife viewer and server are not the same people who sit in the NOC, or maintain the servers. Those are two different departments with two very different timeframes and budgets. When you're dealing with a company like LindenLabs that obviously understands and acknowledges the importance of technology in their operation, the only foreseeable reason (to me, at least) that LindenLabs does not continue to improve their physical systems and network is the cost of upgrading such systems.

No.. it's not a guy thing, Mark was alluding to the fact that membership fees cover bandwith fees, and they dont. And, alt or not, his birthdate is just over 2 years old...

What I was getting at was that tier fees are in place specificly to cover bandwith usage, and you do not have to be a premium member to pay tier. You do to pay tier to LL, but a basic member can easily rent land and pay tier to a landlord, who, in turn, turns around and pays tier to Linden Lab. All I was saying was that basic members who rent land DO pay tier, indirectly, to LL ,a basic member is still paying tier indirectly when they rent. I was not saying a premium member who doesnt own land is a freeloader either. I just wanted Mark to understand that you do not have to be a premium member to contribute financially to LL. Renting land, purchasing L$, etc, puts money into LL's pocket, and being a basic member does not make one a freeloader. Perhaps I was a bit harsh on Mark with my post, and for that, TO MARK, I apologize. He didnt seem that paticularly offended by my remarks, so why should you?

You make sound as if the landlords are doing something wrong.. They are in business to make money, of which there is nothing wrong... They are providing you with a good deal, and making some money at the same time, big deal. They are not "working" some "loophole", they are making profit from their work, just like all businesses are trying to do.



So what's your point? Only LL should be making money???



WRONG:

https://secure-web2.secondlife.com/currency/describe-transaction-fees.php

According to LL, they charge 3.5 percent on transactions. Therefore, if I buy $1000L from LL, and spend it in world, and the receiver cashes out, Linden Lab makes $35L from that transaction. And that puts money in LL's pocket.



Yet again, you are wrong, premium membership offers support services to premium members and certain website access not available to basic members. Some people read the website, and not just forum posts, and have decided they think a premium account is worth the $6-$10 a month (which, honestly, isn't very much for most people).

You missed the point.

"I contribute because I pay $40/month in tier on a private island" is entirely inaccurate because noone has any way of knowing how much of your tier actually ends up going to LL without knowing the size of the rental.

Figure out how much your rental is costing your landlord and that is what you actually contribute and it is in no way related to how much you're actually paying for it.

No, you pay 30 cents per LindeX buy, it's the seller that pays the 3.5%, not you.

And if Zee is to be believed, LL is running the LindeX at a (near) loss due to a mass increase in fraud.

I was also not referring to LindeX fees but what happens with the L$ you spend. If you happen to spend L$5k on a low-profile store it might be likely that the entire L$5k is going towards paying for the store owner's tier and barely if any profit, but if you spent it at a high-profile store it's likely it's just profit in which case LL won't see any of it and you can't claim you contributed to the cost of running SL.

As above, it's not the fact that making profit from SL is bad, it's about whether you're contributing to LL's cost of running SL and buying and spending L$ in-world doesn't mean you are (also doesn't mean you're not, you can't know either way).

What does that have to do with anything?

I said I know people who are premium because it's completely normal for them to pay for their account, they don't care about whether the stipend matches what they put in, they don't care about the 512m² tier, nor do they care about any other benefit associated with premium. They're premium solely because it's normal for them to just pay.

"And if Zee is to be believed, LL is running the LindeX at a (near) loss due to a mass increase in fraud."

Infact they make money of selling and buying since service charge is in place.....

Anytime people selling 5000 L repeat 2 to 5 time during a x period of weeks instead of saving for a period of time you lose money if you seeling in one whole lot (common sence here)....Hence the gain in selling in small amounts eguals alittle more gain for LindeX.......

OK Kitty, look, for starters, I didnt say that I pay $40 tier to a private island owner. I'm a premium member, and I own mainland. I paid up a full year in advance ($72), and I pay $40 a month in tier to Linden Lab.

Secondly, how much square meterage a land renter owns is a moot point. Weather it's 16 square meters or the entire island, simple math will tell you how much of your money is going to Linden Lab. Private islands run $295 a month in tier, so, that works out to:

$295 USD / 65536 square meters which equals about 72 cents per 16 square meter block, so it would be easy to figure out what your landlord is paying in tier for the lot one is renting, and you could compare that (for whatever reason) to how much you're being charged. If I was going to rent, I wouldnt bother figuring out how much profit the landlord was making, I'd simply shop around, and find the best deal, and a covenant I could live with, and perhaps compare that to mainland tier, and consider the difference between owning mainland vs private island. So, no matter how you slice it, if you're renting, the money that you pay the landlord is used to pay the landlord's tier to Linden Lab, hence, you are contributing to the people who are running SL.

Now, it was ME who bought, and put the $1000L into the hands of the seller who cashed out the $1000L, and paid 35 cents to LL for it. If I wasnt there to put the $1000L into the hands of the receiver, Linden Lab wouldn't have made the 35 cents, so, my point being, a basic member can buy L's, spend them, and the receiver cashing out it causing LL to earn the 35 cents. So the basic member is putting money into LL's pocket by purchasing and spending L's. Think about it.... (not to mention the 30 cent charge when I bought.. you're making my point even more...) the basic member IS contributing money to Linden Lab.

What it boils down to is there is a wide range of ways that Linden Lab makes money from SL. Premium membership fees are just one of MANY ways. Mark was saying that non-premium members dont contribute to SL, and I was merely pointing out that they do, both directly and indirectly.

Lastly, you say your friends pay premium membership fees because it's "normal" for them to pay, so they just do. Is that what they tell you... or is it just what you think? Sure, there are probably people out there who just pay, and are not sure why, but probably think there is ultimately something in it for them. They likely assume that there are benefits even if they dont bother to know what they are. Heck, I could get by with a basic membership really, but I like the option to buy and sell land, I like the support and website extras, and I just dont mind the extra support LL gets from my $6 a month.

The one thing I cant understand is why you can't seem to "follow the money" and see that even a basic member who rents and buys L's IS putting money into SL.