Ratings and Calling Cards

I think these subjects could use some community discussion so heres some questions and look forward to reading everyones thoughts and opinions even if you only comment on a few.


When is it appropreiate to trade cards? or rate someone?

Do you think you should be asked first in conversation if a person would like to trade cards?

Do you feel threatened when someone withdraws your calling card?

Is it ok to return a rating to "no rating"?

Did you know you can rate someone through their object?

Would you like to see ratings anonymous or do you like to know who rates you which way?

How would you feel if you were rated negatively and not know who?

I rate EVERYONE positive right when I see them in hopes they will do the same to me. I WANT MONEY REALLY BAD!

When is it appropreiate to trade cards?
I offer to trade cards with anyone I meet more than casually. Anyone I have _any_ kind of business or social relationship with.

But, as has been pointed out, we need a way to organize cards in the tracking drop-down and the IM window.

or rate someone?
I rate people positively when I see them doing something I like, or saying something I like or just looking good. Basically anyone who is improving SL in my eyes. I have never negatively rated someone (except as a joke, and only briefly), because I've never seen someone doing something I really didn't like. I have pointedly not returned a rating after being rated positively.

Do you think you should be asked first in conversation if a person would like to trade cards?
No, offering to trade is asking.

Do you feel threatened when someone withdraws your calling card?
No, because of the rate at which I offer to trade cards.

Is it ok to return a rating to "no rating"?
It's ok, but why would you?

Did you know you can rate someone through their object?
No, I did not know that.

Would you like to see ratings anonymous or do you like to know who rates you which way?
I would not like to see them anonymous, but maybe it should be impossible to rate someone within 30 mins of them having rated you. This avoids instant revenge ratings.

How would you feel if you were rated negatively and not know who?
First hurt, then angry, then sleepy, then angry again, then kind of queasy, then sleepy, then ok.

* When is it appropriate to trade cards? or rate someone?

I think it's a personal decision. Up till a few weeks ago, I only rated if I liked something specific about someone -- their friendliness, etc. Then I was told it looked bad because more people had rated me than I had rated -- that people would think I 'took' ratings but didn't 'give' them. I didn't completely understand, but rather than be thought a meanie or something, I started rating more people based on cool name or av -- stuff like that. I figured I can always rate neutral or negative someone who does something terrible.

Right before I broke 100 on rep, I decided that if I did make 100, I would rate on site every newbie I encountered. My rep rating is a wonderful gift the SL community has given me, I feel very fortunate, and rating all newbies is my way of welcoming them and giving them a good start, and returning that gift.

For trading cards, I think it's polite to always trade, and obviously, I try to.

* Do you think you should be asked first in conversation if a person would like to trade cards?

No, the action asks. (I've twice been declined and felt horrid. Both people came back and told me they had been scared cuz they didn't know what it was.)

* Do you feel threatened when someone withdraws your calling card?

The only person who's withdrawn on me that I remember is Char. lol. Was a while back, and I never asked her about it -- figured it was a mistake. I dunno. I"ll ask her tonight why she did it. Maybe she hates me. If she does hate me then I'll definitely feel threatened that she withdrew my card. heh

* Is it ok to return a rating to "no rating"?

This is a 'neutral' rating to me. It's perfectly ok to do it, but I'm scared to do it, cuz nobody else does it. I'm getting closer to doing it though, and neg rate, because we just need to. People who behave really badly need to know when we find it unacceptable.

*Did you know you can rate someone through their object?
No I didn't -- I'm gonna try this. I very well may withdraw ratings on people who have left objects (eyesores) and never came back. If everybody gets neg ratings from me tonight, it's cuz I figured out how to do this, and found it entertaining

* Would you like to see ratings anonymous or do you like to know who rates you which way?

I would prefer anonymous. I've had people ask me -- even beg me -- for ratings and it makes me very uncomfortable. I think if ratings were anonymous it would cut back on that stuff cuz people wouldn't know if you had or you hadn't.

* How would you feel if you were rated negatively and not know who?
Depends on who it is. I would be devastated if certain people rated me negative. If someone I don't even remember meeting, and I didn't know why, I would prolly just laugh. But.... one reason people don't rate down is because the person will just rate you down in return. But if they didn't know who rated them down, they wouldn't be able to retaliate. So if I had to pick, I'd pick anonymous cuz I think that may be the biggest reason people don't rate down.

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Good questions -

Thanks
Kerstin

When is it appropreiate to trade cards? or rate someone?

That's two questions. I think it's always appropriate to trade cards.

Giving someone a positive rating, tho, FOR ME, isn't an automatic thing. I don't just give out + ratings to everyone I see.

Do you think you should be asked first in conversation if a person would like to trade cards?

Not really. I'm the one who wants an option to "auto accept all" except for Invititations.

Do you feel threatened when someone withdraws your calling card?

Only if that someone owes me money. <cough>

Is it ok to return a rating to "no rating"?

Sure. Say BillyJoeBob seems really kewl at first and you rate him positively. Then he does a 180 and starts acting really jerky. Or vice versa -- MaryLouAnn comes across as a total skank and you rate her negatively, but then she chills out and is an ok kinda person, but not so wonderful that you want to jump from negative to neutral.

Did you know you can rate someone through their object?

Yup.

Would you like to see ratings anonymous or do you like to know who rates you which way?

Kinda on the fence on this one. Kinda like to see the "so and so has rated you positively" message. But then I feel like I should reciprocate when I see the message.

How would you feel if you were rated negatively and not know who?

Do you mean like if I didn't recognize the name of the person when I got the message? I'd feel confused. This actually did happen once. I didn't have the card of the person who rated me negatively, and I don't believe they rated me via one of my objects, because everyone in the welcome area was talking about how this same person had just rated them negatively, and that person wasn't anywhere to be seen. We figured it was a glitch of some sort. <shrug>

If you mean make the message not say the name of the person -- just a simple "you have been rated negatively" -- then the confusion would be even worse, I think. I'd immediately go into "oh dear, who did I offend? did I put my foot in my mouth again? who do I need to apologize to for whatever it is that I did?" kinda stuff.

Good thread, Steller =)

#!

Great comments.


Kerstin I sure don't recall the situation or retracting, more then happy to talk to you inworld about.

I definately dont hate you or anyone!

I looked on my Profile today and Ive rated a whopping total of 4 people, this is mainly due to the fact I don't believe Linden ratings change someones rating(amount) at all. (we are not on "the boards" at all either)

great discussion here. I will only comment on the one i feel strongly about and that would be anonymous ratings.

First off, i think griefers could spread a lot of distress by abusive use of this feature.

Secondly, it gives the person receiving this anonymous negative rating, no way to go about amends or redress. You may genuinely have no idea that you have offended someone. As the rating system works now, if you get a negative rating, you have the option to discuss the problem with the right person...Not just go on a fishing expedition ("was it you?" "did I offend you?" "or maybe you?".

I think a system like this would foster paranoia and insecurity in those receiving anonymous negative ratings.

As it is now, if you feel strongly enough to rate someone negative, then you should also be willing to take the heat, and let them express their feelings too. It may not always be pleasant, but, at least, there is the possibility of reconcilement and understanding between the two parties.

I thought the rating system wasn't finished and everyone was expoilting it for the cash
1. trading cards is fine.
I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable rating people I've just meet,or don't even talk to. The automactic positive rating only makes me feel like I have to give a positvie rating back. I'd like the person to know why I'm giving them a positive rating, for making really neat things or helping me out with some problem I may have. I'd like to know when I'm rated positive It's for something I did rather than just being there.

2. no that's ok.

3. That would depend on who's withdrawing the card.

4. There is one person who has floated a HALO sign just outside of my property. It was done on prupose too, as soon as I catch them on they're getting a negitive rating.

5.Nope, have to try that. There are a lot of cool things out there, and a lot of bad.

6.Not sure about this one.

7. I'd want to know why. How else would I be able to try the make amends.

I think to avoid the feeling that you need to rate someone else positive when they rate you, we shouls have annonymous positive ratings.

And also to be able to reconsile negative ratings the negative rate message should remain the way it is.

So My opinion only change the positive rate message to

"You have been rated positive"

To me, this sounds too much like "You have tested positive"

(HHJK)

Well, the way I do it is...
If someone takes the time out to say hi and chat a bit, I go ahead and rate them positively.

I offer my calling card and store's landmark to anyone I see. It's just a matter of wanting to be available to people and I'd be like Shebang and use autoaccept for any calling cards. After all, if I don't like them, I can ignore them later.

I'd be curious why they would do that, other than organizational reasons (I'd like to have a rolodex feature in game, please!)

I haven't done it yet, but I'd imagine that lowering a rating would always imply that something happened to cause it.

I don't think I'd like anonymous ratings either way. I'd definitely like to know who rated me negatively, so I could try and fix it.

A few possible suggestions... we've got the sorta 'passive' bonus system with ratings... and then a more active one with voting booths. Maybe tweak the rewards so that voting gives more and ratings less. Or ratings could slowly decay to neutral after a while. It could be something as simple as a message saying, "Your rating for soandso has reset to neutral. Repeat the rating?" This way, you're rewarded for continuously going out and meeting people. I can only imagine that in release, people who start from the beginning would jump to massive leads in the ratings. Just suggestions, though. I don't necessarily like the idea of ratings decaying either, but... hey, it's an option.

hehe I was just teasin ya Char. I know you wuvs me. The reason it sticks in my mind is cuz I somehow had your card twice at the time. Maybe the retraction had something to do with that(?)

Kerstin

it's ok...she did it to me too kerstin

(actually it was during the database troubles back in the day ..

heeheheh just joining the poking char hehe

Yikes! I didn't even think about this. Good point, Bel. I change my mind. No anonymous negatives.

As far as calling cards go, send me all you want, You can always refuse ones you don't want or erase them later.
Anyone who is friendly to me I rate positive
I got 2 negative ratings in all the time I have been here. Both ratings were from people I have never heard of or met and were not on my contacts. "Stuff" happens ... =0) (see how I kept that nice ... hehehehe)
Anonymous ratings probably will get a bit of abuse because you know people cannot retailiate against you if they don't know who rated them.

I saw someone else post this and I believe it too:

While the community here is small and friendly, when it becomes larger it won't be as friendly. I have never found a need to rate someone negatively, however I don't think that will always be the case. When it comes time to rate someone negatively though if the system is as it is currently, I probably won't do it. Because I care about my ratings and fear the retaliation.

That being said I don't particularly agree with the way ratings work now. I like the idea more of a decaying ratings system. One way would be that every X time period (1 day? 3? 1 week?) Y number of positive votes and Z number of negative votes 'decay'. Maybe Y and Z should be the same, maybe not.

I'd like to answer these in essay format because... well because I'm a great big windbag. So here goes...

I don't like the rating system at all. I don't like being "paid" to be nice to people, nor do I like the feeling that they may be buttering me up for the same reason. I don't like the fact that the clubs system can be used to massively reward or punish a single user, no matter how much they deserve either treatment. My own behavior has been to reciprocate both calling cards and ratings out of courtesy, but to be honest my heart isn't in it. I was a bit offended to find that two of the Linden folks calling cards had been withdrawn from me recently. I didn't even know you COULD withdraw them and these were the first two I've had withdrawn that I can recall. On the other hand, I can see where they both probably have hundreds and were just cleaning up their list. I'll survive.

Another thing about ratings, and voting for builds, and there may be another few things like this is that they are inflationary. Some will instantly know what I mean by this, others wont, for those that don't: The economy in SL is there for a reason, in my mind, the most important reason, which is to control a limited resource. That resource consists of land, objects, scripts (CPU cycles), sounds, textures and all the other things that end up having to download into your cache everytime you fly over something. If all these resources were unlimited, there would be no reason to have the economy. Everyone could build out as far as the eye can see and be a wastefull as they liked. But since those resources are limited, very limited in fact, (lag must be one of the most popular words in the SL vocabulary right now) there has to be a way to keep consumption of them in check.

If I buy a chunk of land from you, that is not inflationary, especially since we don't have to negotiate the price...they price is whatever the server says it is. Same goes for objects. If I buy an object from you, then there are no more objects in the world than there were before, only the owner name has to change. There are a number of other things we can do in SL that are what I call inflationary though. That means that money has entered the system without other money being destroyed elsewhere. Now I'm sure the people at SL have thought about this, and their solution probably involves tinkering with the tax rates to siphon off the excess money that builds up. This of course will work, in that some people will eventually have to give up land and objects as they are taxed out of the system.

What will they have to do to prevent being taxed out of the system? For starters, join a club. Get all the members of the club to rate each other positively as often as possible, vote for each others builds and in general do as many things that generate revenue for the club without "costing" anything in return.

My solution: "There is no such thing as a free lunch". Let there be a small charge for changing peoples ratings as well as giving them a calling card (or canceling for that matter) and SL will become a much more peacefull place for people who want to build and chat without making a contest out of every minute of your second existence. When I give someone a calling card or take one, it should be solely for the convenience of them contacting me, or me contacting them. Maybe such an exchange should cost a buck or something, but it should NOT be used to build a leaders board. The rating system is OK by me, but let it be more realistic. If I rate you positively it should be like me giving you $10. I pay, you benefit. There won't be much point in people exchanging ratings then. But if someone does me a favor (as they did tonight) I'll happily reward them for it and not expect or want a refund. Popular people will continue to benefit from this system as will people who are naturally helpfull to others. But I think it will less likely be abused by "gangs" doing battle against one another, or worse, against a relatively defensless individual or newbie. We can debate about what SL will look like with 10,000 users, but it won't get there very fast if every new user has to scramble to catch up with the establishment. Thats one element of Real Life that some of us would just as soon leave behind, or at least, not see formalized while on-line.

If you think about it. Its more than just a rating system to get money. Its a way to keep things nice in the world. In order to make more money, You have to do good things. It encrouges the good things and less of the bad. In a way it helps maitain order. I think that the rating system completely suceeds at this. And should be praised for it!

-Skippy