More insanity. Today's subject: The time dimension.

I was thinking about how it was proven that objects in motion live through a slower rate of time. The test was one where they alligned two atomic clocks, put one on a plane and sent it around the world, and it turns out that the one on the plane was eventually behind the one that stayed still on the Earth.

I took on the larger perspective, the one of our universe. Is it possible that our galaxy, our solar system, our planet, is moving so slowly, or so quickly, that other civilizations are running the course of their life in the blink of an eye, or vice versa?

Insane thought, anyone care to elaborate with knowledge they know?

And no, I don't do drugs....
...

often

JK: I don't do drugs, drugs are bad, mkay?

If you've ever read "The Elegant Universe" then you will see that this is theoreticly possible. According to Brian Greene's view on the universal timeflux, though, watching it from earth, it would be just exactly the same. Remeber that the univerese is not flat, but instead like curved paper. We're watching them over many curves, from our timeflux. For them, also, watching us would make us no slower. Also, if we were to go to there planet it would all be the same. If you haven't already read it, though, take a look at the "Gracy and George in space" example. It goes over exactly what you're talking about

So Darwin, what you/he are/is saying is that time is merely a perception and not a constant dimension?

If it is, then why can't I get 8 hours of sleep in 4?

Doesn't this also depend on if you subscribe to quantum physics or not. If there is an absolute minimum amount of time that a reaction can possibly take place in, you can't have a civilization running time arbitrarily quicker than ours. We might already be running as 'quick' as possible.

Sorry if that doesnt make sense. I'm just an armchair physicist

If I remember the theory correctly, it's not objects in motion, it's objects under acceleration. Apparently, however, the time dilation doesn't occur in revers under deceleration.

Of course, there are other theories that consider time to be the fourth dimension, meaning we should be able to move through it similar to the way in which we move through 3d space. Not necessarily time-travel, per se, but more like an ability to increase/decrease the rate at which we move through time. Some hyperspace/FTL travel theories are based on this premise.

Then, of course, there are the theories that time is merely an illusion that we all participate in (willingly) to simplify our reality.

You realize, if this goes much farther, it could very well devolve into a religious debate, right?

Actually, it's the velocity relative to an external Coordinate System that governs the time dilation. The dilation affects an accelerating or decelerating object identically – as the result of whatever fraction of the speed of light they happen to be traveling at any time during the acceleration or deceleration.





Absolutely true – because it only has anything to do with velocity relative to an external Coordinate System. However, while deceleration and acceleration have nothing specific to do with time dilation, driving back the direction that you came – with a velocity that is a sizable portion of the speed of light – WILL dilate time the same as the trip out did – not reversing but continuing the dilation effect.





Actually, REALITY is the illusion we share to help us pass the time more pleasantly





Don’t get my hopes up

Kathy...

remember what I said just the other day? Here it comes...

LOL

i'm pretty syched cuz i'm gonna be studying this stuff next semester.

E=MC^2 here I come!!! woohoo!!!

ok people....youre all scaring poor dragon now.



besides...what does it matter, youre all figments of my imagination anyway!

The confusion with acceleration arises for a couple reasons. First, acceleration is usually added so that the objects can start out in the same frame of reference and have their clocks synchronized; one of the objects is accelerated to a high velocity, and then decelerated to return to the original frame of reference, so their clocks can then be compared. Second, the object that undergoes the acceleration is the one whose clock has slowed down; the object that remains stationary has stayed in the same frame of reference the entire time, and has not experienced time dilation.

Heh, this is getting very close to Jerry Fallwell breaking into LL and painting the cross on the walls.

But anywho...

Time is reletive, and according to Brian Greene and Stephen Hawking, local according to the person viewing it.

Says Hawking:
If energy can travel faster than the speed of light, we would be able to tell the future. Therefor, if energy traveling faster than the speed of light is possible, time travel is possible. This still has nothing to do with matter traveling faster than the speed of light by the way, guys.

Says Greene:
Energy cannot travel faster than the speed of light under any cicumstance because it would warp the universe's structure, so if we were to make energy travel faster than the speed of light then the universe would be destroyed.

Discuss.

Well, Im not very experianced with physics, but I once read a book called 'black holes' in which it explains something called 'the twin paradox' or something similar. In 'the twin paradox' a set of twins seperates, one stays on earth, and the other sets off on a journey at nearly the speed of light away from the earth, then back again. Once the two are reunited, the one who went on the journey barely aged, while the other aged dramatically (senior citizen-like).

Also, (in the book, just restating) you can create a time travel portal, by attaching one end of a wormhole to the earth, and one to a ship traveling at about the speed of light. The ship takes a similar turn back to the earth as the twin's ship did, and the end of the wormhole on the ship leads into the past.

One thing that was puzzling me about wormholes... There was a graphic in the book that showed an astronaut traveling through by just taking one step. (this wormhole lead from a space station on earth to one on the moon) I was wondering... If I passed an ethernet cable through the wormhole, would it magically stretch the expance from the earth to the moon? and if so... how fast will data be transferred through the cable?

-Chris

Well Chris, the thing is no one knows.

Oh and btw POST # 300 WOO I'm amazing

Well, there is more to consider. The Lorentz Transforms also illustrate that as time is dilating, so is the dimension of an object in the direction of travel – ending with that dimension disappearing entirely at the speed of light. Also, the mass of the object increases to infinity at that speed. So, if a being were to travel at the speed of light, they would literally disappear while containing all the mass in the universe.

Pantheistic religions would, at this point, nod their heads and say “of course.” Since – to a pantheist – God IS the Universe, and there is nothing BUT God in the Universe, this all makes sense. It makes sense to some of the rest of us, too

Of course, it becomes VERY interesting when you consider that the speeding being would have enjoyed no such elevation from His OWN perspective. Only from ours

Add to this the concept that anyone who cannot measure time (remember: it stops dead at that velocity) would find themselves eternal. If you cannot perceive the passage of time (for instance, at death) then you are forever frozen in the last moment you could perceive, right? (May you all die while sitting naked in a hot tub in Shipley

Of course, time goes on for the rest of us. I better get in-world and check my taxes

As I understand it, the difference was in nanoseconds. Perhaps the g-forces acting on the time device in motion slowed down its electrons thereby slowing the function and thus the time readout.

Einstein theorized that time travel was possible specifically because Time IS a dimension. He explained it like this:

Let's say your invited to a party.
In order to arrive at the party you have to know certain things, specific coordinates:

1. The location, which could be defined as an address or a combination of latitude and longitude.
2. The how to get there. The rules of direction that lead you to
party.
3. The host, or setting. (SL could be considered a host of a moment)
4. How long the party will last? From 10000 B.C. To..... or maybe a lifespan.
5. The time the party starts. A specific coordinate that tells you when the event will happen.

Unless you know when the party is, for you, it cannot exist.
If you have a prim that exists at 1pm and it is not touched until or moved until 2pm. Where was it at 1:30pm?
The answer according to Einstein? Easy...It's at 1:30PM.

Then again....just a theory....
Crow

One of my favorite Sci Fi books is "Dragon's Egg" by Robert L. Forward. It is about a different type of "relative" time. Earth scientists discover that there is a nearby dark neutron star and they decide to visit it using our conventional propulsion systems. Of course they can't land on the star because the gravity there would crush the ship or any sort of probe sent to the surface...so they just make observations using various wavelength beams and other non physical means.

As it turns out though, there is a primitive life form on the star and they are as close as can be imagined to being 2-dimensional creatures (like in Abot's Flatland) who think that the surface of the star is the whole universe.

The beams from the earth ship make them aware of a third dimension and they start to explore the concept of "up". Ultimately they are able to construct a spacecraft of there own and fly up to meet the Earth people, to whom they are really grateful for making them aware of the rest of the universe.

The coolest part, is that because of the density of matter on the neutron star the creatures there live at a very accelerated pace. One hour to us is equivalent to 100 years for them. So from the time our probe reaches their star to the time they fly up to meet us only a few hours pass and their civilization has gone from very primitive to much beyond ours in technology.

As to those atomic clocks, maybe they just had one wound too tight

just in the nick of time, fark.com pulls through with somthing about the time dimension!

Click me!

Hmm... Time is an interesting concept, and one I actually spend quite a bit of... well... time thinking about.

Just as a disclaimer... I'm much more philosophical than logical... except this first thing. Every once in a while the two meet, however...

1) The atomic clock experiment doesn't really seem to make much sense... Given, one IS stationary, but the earth, and the entire universe, is moving. Therefore, that clock is not stationary. The other clock is moving in a nearly circular path, therefore, while that clock does, at times, move faster than the other clock, it also spends an equal amount of time moving slower than that clock. Hmm... I could explain better if I had something to draw on.

Let's assume that clock S (for stationary) is on the "trailing end" of the planet, and let's also assume that the earth doesn't rotate (it'd be irrelevant if the plane flew long enough anyway). Now... Clock M (for motion) begins to fly north.

Oh geez... I just realized the flaw in my thinking... I completely forgot lateral motion. Either way, it wouldn't be as much of a difference as you'd expect.

2) I've always wondered if smaller (and larger) things percieve time differently. I'll give a small example of what I'm saying. If you've ever seen "Antz" you'll remember a part where they run from someone who is walking. This person, to the ants, is walking very slowly. Maybe the ants see things on an accelerated scale, like our 1 minute=their 1 hour. Do you think that size would factor into time reality?

Hmmm... I have more but its late and I'm too tired to think hard anymore. Go watch "The Time Machine" and think really hard about what is ACTUALLY happening whenever the time machine is used. It's much more complicated than is implied.