Should LL reform land buying to stop Anshe from taking money from the poor?
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
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09-02-2005 14:11
Isn't it time that land-owership caps were put in place? Shouldn't the auction system be reformed to favor small buyers instead of big buyers? Are we really supposed to feel pity for plutocrats who want special treatment from LL to sustain their six-figure SL income?
I think it's time our benevolent oligarchy (LL) reformed their land-ownership, land-fee, and auction system to embody the fairness and impartiality that they otherwise espouse.
~Ulrika~
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Juro Kothari
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Join date: 4 Sep 2003
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09-02-2005 14:27
Well - I think that the land fees, if adjusted, could do a lot of harm to more respectable businesses - hurting what (little) competition there is for Anshe. I think that a boycott, if one is so inclined, is a good option. I get asked about land and where to obtain it all the time. I stopped my referrals to some particular land dealers because everytime I would send them an IM regarding the referral, it was treated as an inconvenience. Piss poor customer service, IMHO - so the folks that ask me are no longer referred to those particular land dealers.
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
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09-02-2005 15:03
From: Juro Kothari Well - I think that the land fees, if adjusted, could do a lot of harm to more respectable businesses - hurting what (little) competition there is for Anshe. How about a reform to the auction system? Currently land is auctioned sim at a time, pricing all but the biggest buyers out of the market. If LL instead wrote code that would terraform a sim and a script that would automatically divide new sims into 512 m^2 parcels, it would allow everyone equal access to the land in the auctions. This seems like a technological solution (usually preferred by LL) that could be beneficial to the small buyer. ~Ulrika~
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Juro Kothari
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09-02-2005 15:07
From: Ulrika Zugzwang How about a reform to the auction system? Currently land is auctioned sim at a time, pricing all but the biggest buyers out of the market. If LL instead wrote code that would terraform a sim and a script that would automatically divide new sims into 512 m^2 parcels, it would allow everyone equal access to the land in the auctions. This seems like a technological solution (usually preferred by LL) that could be beneficial to the small buyer. ~Ulrika~ Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood that the current sim auction system was such that if, for example, I were to put in a bid (request) for a new sim, then Anshe upped the ante by a few hundred, I could simply put in a request for a new sim and abandon the old bid. Am I wrong in this?
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Ananda Sandgrain
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Join date: 16 May 2003
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09-02-2005 15:16
This is true Juro. It's also a fascinating perversion of an idea I started agitating for as soon as the auctions began. I've wanted land on demand for a long time. Instead we got sims on demand, which is nice from a price stability standpoint, but does force people to deal with middlemen.
I'd like to see LL experiment with offering smaller parcels again, in this same manner. Just always have at least half a dozen 1/4 and 1/8 sim parcels up, for example.
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Juro Kothari
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Join date: 4 Sep 2003
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09-02-2005 15:23
OK, so pretty much the only way it would work is to band prospective land owners together to buy a sim - or - find a reputable, reliable, customer-focused middleman.
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
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09-02-2005 15:54
From: Juro Kothari OK, so pretty much the only way it would work is to band prospective land owners together to buy a sim - or - find a reputable, reliable, customer-focused middleman. That's what the Neualtenburg nonprofit land cooperative is, a group of small buyers banding together to purchase a sim. There's no middleman making a profit off of the land owners, instead the land is owned collectively. I'd like to see more of this in SL but as of yet we are the only nonprofit land cooperative. ~Ulrika~
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Ulrika Zugzwang
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09-02-2005 15:57
From: Ananda Sandgrain I'd like to see LL experiment with offering smaller parcels again, in this same manner. Just always have at least half a dozen 1/4 and 1/8 sim parcels up, for example. I feel that all land sold at auction should be in 512 m^2 parcels only. Larger lots are invariably subdivided for a profit. I would instead like to see barons compete with small buyers over individual 512 m^2 lots, assembling larger estates as a service. ~Ulrika~
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Jake Reitveld
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09-02-2005 15:58
I am going to sail my pirate ship to neuatlen burg next, now that I have joined the crimson fleet!
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Eggy Lippmann
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09-02-2005 16:13
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Kris Ritter
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09-02-2005 16:13
From: Ulrika Zugzwang I feel that all land sold at auction should be in 512 m^2 parcels only. Larger lots are invariably subdivided for a profit.
I would instead like to see barons compete with small buyers over individual 512 m^2 lots, assembling larger estates as a service.
~Ulrika~ Wow. The forums have been a revelation this last week. Truly. But for me to wholeheartedly agree with Ulrika? I think this is an excellent idea. I really do. I can't say much more than that. Mainly cuz I was almost stunned into silence at the thought of me supporting something Ulrika said. 
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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09-02-2005 16:14
From: Ulrika Zugzwang I feel that all land sold at auction should be in 512 m^2 parcels only. Larger lots are invariably subdivided for a profit.
I would instead like to see barons compete with small buyers over individual 512 m^2 lots, assembling larger estates as a service.
~Ulrika~ But then it would actually be work Ulrika! You just don't get it! Sigh...
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Cocoanut Koala
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Join date: 7 Feb 2005
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09-02-2005 16:25
Taking money from the poor? That's a good one. coco
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katykiwi Moonflower
Esquirette
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,489
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09-02-2005 16:57
Making the auctions for whole sim sale exclusively was a mistake. This does make ALL land investors the STAKEHOLDERS in the land purchasing process. LL set this in place. There is no getting around the fact that the current auction and land purchase system has created an agency relationship, which is a business relationship, between LL and all land barons. I think the auction system should be returned to one for small lots.
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Enabran Templar
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Join date: 26 Aug 2004
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09-02-2005 17:00
God, I missed Ulrika. 
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Talen Morgan
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09-02-2005 17:06
From: Enabran Templar God, I missed Ulrika.  reload....she moves slow 
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SuezanneC Baskerville
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09-02-2005 17:39
This thread singles out an individual for villification and attempts to paint a severly negative picture of the persons moral character by describing their actions with the absurd cliche of taking money from the poor.
If one sincerely wishes to suggest policy changes it would be easy enough to do so without attacking indivuals.
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
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09-02-2005 23:11
From: Talen Morgan reload....she moves slow  Ha ha. It's true! Now that my baby has arrived, my ability to post has dropped by a factor of ten. Since my last post above, I've fed my baby three times, changed four diapers, taken two naps, and managed to eat a cold dinner. It will probably be quite some time before I'm back to normal. Because of this, I'm putting Enabran in charge of the forums until I'm able to return.  ~Ulrika~
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Nolan Nash
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09-03-2005 04:01
From: Ulrika Zugzwang Ha ha. It's true! Now that my baby has arrived, my ability to post has dropped by a factor of ten. Since my last post above, I've fed my baby three times, changed four diapers, taken two naps, and managed to eat a cold dinner. It will probably be quite some time before I'm back to normal. Because of this, I'm putting Enabran in charge of the forums until I'm able to return.  ~Ulrika~ Congrats! Hope the baby is healthy! 
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Bruno Buckenburger
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Join date: 30 Dec 2004
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09-03-2005 05:33
From: Ulrika Zugzwang Should LL reform land buying to stop Anshe from taking money from the poor?
No. I'm not happy with the 'sim at a time' auction structure but I don't believe in caps. If Anshe or anyone else wants their second life experience to include world dominantion then they should be able to go after it. Two issues. The first is caveat emptor. We're all supposed to be adults and need to be cautious whenever we make a purchase. I hate to see people get screwed over but if they really feel they have been they need to take it to LL. If someone overpays for something that is their own fault. I'd feel different if this was the teen grid but adults should know to comparison shop and use tools available to them -- such as this forum -- for information. The second is the question of caps. If I was the most generous guy around and bought up a couple hundred thousand square meters and sold it at $L1/sm this wouldn't be an issue. The issue is that SL's Leona Helmsley is the big land owner so suddenly a dominant land baroness presence is not a good thing. Also, from a practical standpoint, Phillip would not turn away such a cash cow. That just doesn't make good business sense.
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Huns Valen
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Join date: 3 May 2003
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09-03-2005 06:28
LL does not want to have to pay people to sit there and parcel out sims, probably because of scaling issues. Imagine some time in the future, them releasing ten new sims every day. Those parcel lines don't draw themselves, nor do the rivers and so forth. These things might be sped up with a bit of AI, but that would take scarce time and resources to develop. So, they decide to let the residents come forth and establish real estate operations instead.
Because of this, those with a lot of money to invest in real estate operations will end up making a profit off those who lack either the money or the inclination to get into that sort of thing. I don't see this as a bad thing. Allowing people and businesses to do what they are good at frees us to do what we are good at. I suppose I could grow my own food and figure out some way of generating electricity and string fiber optics into my place and dig a well and a landfill and put in a septic tank and some leeching fields, and so on, but it's much easier for me to just pay others (big companies with lots of money, in every case) to do those things for me. It lets me concentrate on what I am good at.
By the same token, allowing real estate businesses to handle land parcelling & resale gives LL more time and money to spend on things that are of critical importance, such as making client framerate not as atrocious, reducing crashes (both for the client and simulators), figuring out and implementing ways to scale their resources to meet demand, etc.
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Jesrad Seraph
Nonsense
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
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09-03-2005 09:41
From: Ulrika Zugzwang I feel that all land sold at auction should be in 512 m^2 parcels only. Larger lots are invariably subdivided for a profit.
I would instead like to see barons compete with small buyers over individual 512 m^2 lots, assembling larger estates as a service.
~Ulrika~ Your proposition makes a lot of sense, economically. It destroys the existing barrier to entry on the land market. More competition is always better in the long term for everyone 
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