Why a target land price is necessary

If Linden Labs could provide us with a 1 month target land price, it would solve many problems.

It Would Stop Land Baroning

Land Barons would not try to sell properties on the median twice the price of the target becaues they know that LL would start flooding the market and they'd LOSE.

If the median started pulling away from the target, land barons would ratchet down their buying and focus more on developing and selling their properties.


It Would Allow for Land Developing

As a land developer, I wish to buy, develop (eg, free postal trucks and free street cars in boardman, sell land goods off of the land, sell the land, etc) and then sell properties. But I am always afraid that my inventory is suddenly going to become worthless as LL may just capricously pull the rug out from under my feet.


Flexibility would still Exist

Flexibility would still exist as LL could simply flood the market with desireable / less desireable land.


The other idea, is simply stating a bias .. such as "strong bias to lower the cost of land over the next month" .. or .. "light bias to lower the cost of land" .. or "let the market decide on the price of land" ..

Etc.

In order to bring real world dollars and invest in LL (not just buying, but using developer resources to build free things) we need a somewhat more predictable environment with fewer surprises.

Lindens, please take action against blaze. He is spamming this forum with personal attacks.

Blaze, I disagree.

You're asking for what amounts to an artificial 'support' price. Like the US has with Sugar and a few other commodities.

In the long term, it really doesn't help, the market forces that determine pricing should remain intact, not be manipulated by the Linden Lab 'Central Land Bank' or whatever.

Why am I seeing these threads by people owning a lot of land, such as Billy and yourself? (regardless of purposes as to why)

I think it is simple, the market has turned, and now some business models are suffering.

Time to re-evaluate?

Perhaps so.

I don't think its needed.

Land seems to be on the down-trend right now, and has stabalized around 4L$ per sqm (last I checked awhile ago it was about the same).

This is much better than the 19L$ per-sqm we were seeing months ago.

In-world land statistics for last 7 days.

Parcels Sold: 1,683
Total Square Meters Sold: 1,829,648
Average Parcel Size: 1,087
Average L$/Meter Paid: L$ 4.45
Median L$/Meter Paid: L$ 3.65

Fun Fact: 4L$ per-sqm is Oz Spade's highest buying price, he will not buy any land over that ammount. (give for certain rare circumstances)

You know, theres something really funny here.

Back when people were profiteering off land left and right, they were quick to say that it was simply capitalism, nothing wrong with that. Free market economy and all that. Anyone who suggested ANYTHING other than letting them have total free reign was decryed as a communist, anti-capitalist, or some other wild and insulting title.

Now that their wonderful free market has turned against them, due to a *variety* of factors, not just one, they want the Lindens to step in and fix prices, restore it to one where their old buisness model makes sense. Price fixing. Removing land until the land is expensive again. Whatever.

Capitalism works both ways. You stand to loose everything at any moment in a capitalist system, due to forces entierly outside your control. Thats life. Learn it. Love it.

I'm not going to draw any conclusions from this, that would be a personal attack, but...

It's interesting.

That said...

A target price is not only un-needed, and blatently anti-capitalist (Hah! I get to use that phrase now! Neener-Neener! ), it wouldn't really accomplish anything. Unless the lindens *enforced it*, which they have no buisness doing, people would ignore it.

The lindens already have a target price, of that I don't think anyone doubts. What they should do is share it with us.

I am profitting greatly under the current system as I am staying below the median price level. The current system, as stands, simply encourages a boom / bust type scenario where people buy land until it gets too pricey (boom) and then LL steps in by flooding the market (bust).

If LL could give some indications of where prices should be (not such a surprising thing! Most companies do provide prices for their services) the land buyers will naturally avoid buying at boom rates(they'll know what 'boom' rates are), thus taming the cycles.

But doesn't everyone have their own "boom" level?

And won't Land Barons take advantage of that?

Don't Land Barons work by "I'll set this land at x ammount and lower it only if no one buys it in 5 months." model?

Would anyone really care what LL says about pricing and put their own greed out of the way? I doubt it.

I say price at what you feel comfortable, and let buyers buy at what they feel is comfortable. The market can pretty much set its own target.

I still see land that is way over-priced, but obviously not many people are buying it anymore, opting for cheaper methods.

I think land barons would have to simply stop buying land at a certain point if they see the median price creeping up as they know that will force LL's hands.

Right now they'll roll the dice (or not) and buy land.


It's important to point out that Philip has done this to a certain degree. If you watch his townhalls carefully and his various statements, you'll see that he does give hints when they're about to flood the market with land.

The recent land flood was precipitated with quite a few warnings. Unfortunatley, unless you were in the know, you got caught out and got stuck with expensive land.

I personally waited to start buying land up until after they had recently flooded the market as I had been watching the chat logs carefully.

Exactly. You want to avoid the natural rise-and-fall cycle of capitalistic supply-and-demand.

A smooth, steady profit 'n' price line != Free Market Capitalism.

The lindens do not have a target land price. They have a target level for the rate at which they lose customers. They only 'flood the market' when people are leaving in droves because they can't get land for themselves in the auctions.

It doesn't have anything to do with price, it has to do with long term game stability. A couple of months ago, there was so little land and it was coming out at a rate so slow in comparison to the demand that the barons basically bought everything in the auctions.

This allowed the barons to decide the price.

The barons could still do this if they wanted, they'd just have to invest a LOT more to snatch up all the available land.

Possibly one of the issues we may be seeing is that the land fiasco from a month or so ago drove away quite a few people. If those people hadn't been driven away by the baron's artificially raised land prices, then perhaps there would be enough buyers to determine a higher market value.

The barons can no longer claim that they weren't driving up the prices, as we now see that, left to it's own devices, the market will decide the much more reasonable value of around L$4/m.

Offering up a 'target land price' and then trying to control the market with the rate of land release would be 1) nearly impossible 2) ridiculously biased toward a tiny percentage of players and 3) disastrous.

If land profiteering is too risky or scary for someone now, then, as we all recommended a few weeks ago, that person should get out of the biz.

Should the Lindens also vary the rate of L$ coming into the world to adjust the falling value of the L$ at GOM?

How about a tax on clothing when the average price of a dress falls too low?

I'm sorry, but like so many of us warned, SL is not a stable market.

It's unfortunate that noone would have been able to predict the 'baby boom' generated by the media we got. If so, LL would have been able to flood the land market slightly before, providing enough land for the people that wanted it.

Since they can only react to population growth rates rather than predict them, the flood came too late. It's sad, but it's doubtful that will see any of those people come back to the game. People tend to go on their first impressions.

Obviously, none of this post is directed at any particular land baron or baronness.

"They have a target rate for which they lose customers"

This is a good point, but I still believe a target land price would curb land baroning. By not going above a certain price land barons would have to simply quit land baroning.

Also, as I stated above, LL is already giving out hints about their land policies. Unfortunately, they are not equally giving out these hints to everyone.


BTW, land barons are not a small percentage of players.

I've bought land from random players. Most of them like to make a small profit with land they have bought if they can. This is generally 90% of the all SLers.

What people don't realise is that everyone in SL is a land baron of one form or another.

"land barons" will stop buying land when they have reached capacity. a point at which the risk becomes too great or that they cannot cover thier cost.

there is no solution to "land barons" because it is not a really a problem. this type of activity is a direct outcome of varying demand for different parcel sizes and a free market model.

there are to problems attributed to "land barons":
high land prices. this is a result of low supply. it is blamed on land speculators by players who are either cheap or self centred. (these are the same kind of people who evade taxes or scam welfare, depending on thier financial situation).

the other is coercion tactics by creating inhospitable conditions on the land or scamming newbies. this is not a problem about this kind of activity but of a certain kind of person. this attack is misdirected towards the land speculation trade at large by people who are so accupied by thier own problems they can't se past thier own nose.

i cannot see a target price solving a problem since there is none that exists.

Im trying to figure out if Im a Land Baroness or developer or what.... I lean towards a developer but, I buy land I want and keep it so, perhaps Im neither..... I develope all my land, and buy more in Jenner when becomes available. Not for a profit but for my own enjoyment. Have I sold any land... nope, gave some away and loaned tier costs sometimes. I need help, WTH am I??

i always thought the land baron(ess) term should have applied to people who had massive holdings of land for personal use. like christiano or yourself. i do own a sim myself, but i share it with other players so i wouldn't fall into the same category. but most prefer to use the term to apply to land speculators.

I myself think land speculators were partly to blame, they weren't the only problem, but cmon some of the prices on land was rediculous(and the fact that no one baught these certain plots just proves it wasn't just me), and these speculators were ones that put the price on it. I'll admit I'm cheap, but I'm not self centered or would ever comit crimes like that.

Toy, it depends on your view, I define a baron as someone who buys land, and does nothing with it but puts a high price tag on it for their own profit. I define a developer or estate agent to be someone who adds some value to the land and makes the price resaonable, adding value would be to actively do things that users ask, find land for them, put a house or other landscaping they'd want, etc.

Edit: To fix "pown" to "own"

You're the kind of person we need more of

the price of land was that at which land was selling, not at which land was not selling. so the land you speak of was not the price of land.
i said cheap OR self centred. it is the later that would tend to evade taxes etc.


what would you call some one who buys large parcels and sells them whole or in pieces at the same rate at which smaller parcels are selling?

You're a land JUNKIE! Welcome to the club!

People like blaze make me wish we still had an economy forum. It's not that I don't like his posts, but sometimes I would just rather read something funny (and probably off-topic) instead.
LL really blew it when they last rearranged the forums IMHO, and they are taking way too long to fix them.