Random legal things regarding volunteers and submissions
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Sleeper Guillaume
Explorer Achiever
Join date: 8 Jan 2003
Posts: 120
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03-03-2003 12:19
Disclaimer: Whereas heretofor and notwithstanding yada etcetera be it known that: I am not a lawyer. However, I do wish to speak about some legal issues. Only two(2). First, in other services, volunteer players who were given access to free accounts in exchange for their services.... one day found out that they were suddenly cut off. Apparently the company in question feared that these people would mistakenly think they were employees, causing headaches for the company. People were shocked, then mostly shook their heads sadly when this happened, and went on with their life. In SL, we're seeings players volunteering for all sorts of events, receiving linden dollars as payment. In the case of the wild west town, contracts are being given and we're following a company guided project plan. I find these to be similar, and would like to hear from a legal person at the labs that everything is cool.... because I think most of us like it the way it is and don't want something harsh to happen down the road. Secondly, here are two interesting paragraphs from the 'There' license agreement. 'There' is trying to compete in the same space as SL/Lindenlabs. You will note the striking contrast with SL, as far as creative contributions are concerned. (Where I'm meaning that every single player is just about dumping creativity wholesale into SL, daily.) I'm sort of asking for a similar reassurance that everything is cool, mainly just because of how strongly worded these paragraphs are: From: someone Submissions Company is pleased to hear from its members and welcomes your comments regarding the Services and the There Environment. However, Company's policy does not allow us to accept or consider creative ideas, suggestions or materials other than those it has specifically requested. It is the intent of this policy to avoid any misunderstandings when projects developed by Company's professional staff might seem to others to be similar to their own creative work. Accordingly, we must ask that you do not send us any original creative materials such as game ideas or original artwork. While we do value your feedback on our services and products, we request that you be specific in your comments on those services and products, and not submit any creative ideas, suggestions or materials. All materials you send to Company, whether or not at our request (including, but not limited to, e-mail, postings, contest entries, Avatars, There Objects, creative suggestions, ideas, notes, drawings, concepts or other information) (collectively, "Submissions"  , shall be deemed, and shall remain, the property of Company. None of the Submissions shall be subject to any obligation of confidence on the part of Company and Company shall not be liable for any use or disclosure of any Submissions. Without limitation of the foregoing, Company shall exclusively own all now known or hereafter existing rights to the Submissions of every kind and nature, in perpetuity, throughout the world and shall be entitled to unrestricted use of the Submissions for any purpose whatsoever, commercial or otherwise, without compensation to the provider of the Submissions. You waive any and all moral rights in any such Submissions as well as any claim to a right of credit or approval. Sounds pretty weird to me. Please pat me on the head and say everything is all right?  |
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Maxen Underthorn
Registered User
Join date: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 193
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03-03-2003 12:49
I'm confused. Does that mean anything we add to SL belongs to them?
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BuhBuhCuh Fairchild
Professional BuhBuhCuh
Join date: 9 Oct 2002
Posts: 503
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03-03-2003 13:22
I think that quote is from the "There" eula, not SL's From SL's: From: someone 6.3 Participant Content. Participants can upload Content to Linden's servers in various forms. Unless specified otherwise in your transmission, by submitting your Content to any area, you automatically grant (or you warrant that the owner of such Content has expressly granted) to Linden the royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such Content worldwide and incorporate it in other works in any form, media or technology now known or later developed. 7.1 Content. You acknowledge that: (i) by using the Service you may have access to graphics, sound effects, music, video, audio, animation, text and other creative output (collectively, "Content" , and (ii) Content may be provided under license by independent content providers, including contributions from other Participants (all such independent content providers, "Content Providers" . Linden does not pre-screen Content. Linden has the right, but not the obligation, to remove any Content in whole or in part at any time. 7.2 Rights in Content. You acknowledge that Linden and other Content Providers have rights in their respective Content under copyright and other applicable laws and treaty provisions, that they retain all such rights and that you accept full responsibility and liability for your use of any Content in violation of any such rights. You agree that you will not use any Content other than in connection with using the Service and that your creation of Content is not in any way based upon any expectation of compensation from Linden. You shall hold Linden harmless from any claims by third parties that your Content infringes upon, violates or misappropriates their intellectual property or proprietary rights. I'm no experti in legalese - but it sounds like you can upload your own material, and other users have to respect your authorship rights to it, but by uploading and/or creating work in world, you give Linden Lab permission to use it however they see fit. |
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Bel Muse
Registered User
Join date: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 388
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03-03-2003 13:46
I think one of the interesting differences to note between the two TOS', is There uses the word "exclusively" From: someone Without limitation of the foregoing, Company shall exclusively own all now known or hereafter existing rights to the Submissions of every kind and nature... and Linden's TOS uses the "non-exclusively" From: someone you automatically grant (or you warrant that the owner of such Content has expressly granted) to Linden the royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish,... The wording leades me to believe, you still retain control and the right to use your uploaded content outside of SL. Unlike There where it seems once uploaded to their servers, you have given up all claim to ownership and can't use for any other purpose. |
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Dave Zeeman
Master Procrastinator
Join date: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 1,025
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03-03-2003 21:50
From: someone Originally posted by BuhBuhCuh Fairchild
I think that quote is from the "There" eula, not SL's Just letting you know, it IS from the "There" eula and Sleeper didn't say it was from the SL eula. Just letting you know ________________ This is my insta-sig. Enjoy  |
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Nada Epoch
The Librarian
Join date: 4 Nov 2002
Posts: 1,423
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even though they have the right to use our stuff...
03-04-2003 01:23
they still ask before they do anything, which is somehow comforting.
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i've got nothing.
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Nexus Nash
Undercover Linden
Join date: 18 Dec 2002
Posts: 1,084
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03-04-2003 11:11
I WANNA BE A LINDEN!  |
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Rivn Epoch
Senior Member
Join date: 17 Dec 2002
Posts: 207
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03-04-2003 18:06
looks like they will never know what you agreed with me on Pat since the post got deleated and I am clueless as to why ! it did not condem anyone , it did not call anyone a name, it did not swear , it did absolutly NOTHING against community standards YET it was deleated ... and since it broke NO RULES WHATSOEVER
im going to repost it here as best as I can, wont be word for word but the general thought will be here at least....
In the above posts you will find statements from LL about owning all rights to anything created within SL
Givin that set of circumstances its fairly clear that it will release any responcibility of the beta testers if a minor should run into them and be exposed since LL is claiming ownership to any and all works made within the game ...
so if they own them , your not responcible if a minor is there and sees it (if its in a mature area) because it was there duty to make sure that minors didnt get in to that area in the begin with ....
they own everything within SL so its there items that are being viewed....
this does not however mean that you should intentionally show stuff to minors thats just immoral...
for some reason this was deleated before (althou better worded earlier I think )
/e wonders who the deleater of the post was and the reasoning behind it? since it broke no community standards
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Pat Murphy
The Wandering Wizard
Join date: 2 Dec 2002
Posts: 142
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03-04-2003 18:20
I have all the old posts saved, thanks to my local cache. I have inquired about the removal, and pending permission from a Linden (I have requested by email) I will repost them.
-Pat Murphy
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That's how they showed their respect for Paddy Murphy
That's how they showed their honour and their pride;
They said it was a sin and shame and they winked at one another
And every drink in the place was full the night Pat Murphy died.
-Great Big Sea
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Rivn Epoch
Senior Member
Join date: 17 Dec 2002
Posts: 207
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03-04-2003 18:28
did you see anything in it Pat that in your mind would have gotten it deleated? anything at all that is against terms of service??
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Pat Murphy
The Wandering Wizard
Join date: 2 Dec 2002
Posts: 142
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03-04-2003 20:17
well, the thread should have been locked, because the last two posts were had no content and were purely antagonistic (I know some linden has somewhere that that is the kind of thing that gets threads locked). But that is no reason for a good chunk of the tread to be deleted. Which is why I asked for permission to repost.
-Pat Murphy
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That's how they showed their respect for Paddy Murphy
That's how they showed their honour and their pride;
They said it was a sin and shame and they winked at one another
And every drink in the place was full the night Pat Murphy died.
-Great Big Sea
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Rivn Epoch
Senior Member
Join date: 17 Dec 2002
Posts: 207
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03-04-2003 20:22
I meant in my original post before I got attacked for posting it
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try and remember text has no voice inflections so some things may not be meant as taken take care in your interpritations
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Pat Murphy
The Wandering Wizard
Join date: 2 Dec 2002
Posts: 142
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03-05-2003 09:19
ok, I have gotten permission to repost the deleted posts. Apparently it was a mistake that more posts were deleted than just the last 2. From: someone Rivn Epoch:
with this in mind (I may be wrong ) BUT it sounds as though that may release anyone responcibility for works not suitable for minors if they came in contact with them due to SL not being able to screen them out in the begin with...since after all they are laying claims to any and all works within the game itself...
They cant own it and not own it at the same time if you get my drift From: someone Maxen Underthorn:
There is already many threads on the subject of minors. This thread is about the ownership of creative works. From: someone Rivn Epoch:
jeeze I wasnt aware of the fact that what I had to say wasnt relivant to ownership of works... nor was I aware that you was the official message board nazzi that determined where every post should be put ... with that in mind maybe you should visit some of the other posts that got literally hijacked and make your same comments there .... oh wait thats right I wasnt the one who hijacked them and changed the topic so you probably wont do that will you...
get a life From: someone Dave Zeeman:
Rivn... I can feel the other members on this forum... I can feel what they are thinking... I can feel what they are feeling... I can sense their souls just wanting to scream in a post what I'm about to give to you as a collective of other forum members...
SHUT UP!
Sorry... I just felt it had to be said...
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And by "shut up", I mean "be quiet and stop making more and more enemies". From: someone Rivn Epoch:
ummm dave .....
Kiss off !!! From: someone Pat Murphy:
I've never agreed with Rivn before. I don't like Rivn. But his original post in this thread was not only perfectly on topic, but I had the exact same thought it mind.
This squabbling is pointless. It's true the issue of minors has been discussed, but that doesn't mean new facets won't be discovered. The issue of minors and content permeate all of SL, get used to it.
-Pat Murphy That's it. The "shut up" and "kiss off" posts are the only ones that should have been deleted, or caused the thread to be locked. I think you were in the right, Rivn, but you could have handled it a little better. You should concentrate on defending yourself and your points instead of attacking you opponent in an argument. The "board nazzi" post was a little inflamatory, and I think that may have set things off. Lets learn from this thing people, confer, discuss, argue, but don't squable and attack eachother, leave that for presidential debates and kindergardeners. -Pat Murphy
_____________________
That's how they showed their respect for Paddy Murphy
That's how they showed their honour and their pride;
They said it was a sin and shame and they winked at one another
And every drink in the place was full the night Pat Murphy died.
-Great Big Sea
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Maxen Underthorn
Registered User
Join date: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 193
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03-05-2003 09:54
My original post still stands. This thread wasn't discussing the topic of minors. It was a discussion about the ownership of creative works. The content of the work wasn't the issue. How it applies to the issues around minors is interesting but should be in another thread.
I've spent some time in world building things. I have no problem with ownership of things I made in game. Linden's are free to do with it what they please.
Any of myy own textures that I load up into the game I loose control of. I already kind of figured that would happen. I have no problem with that either.
In RL I'm an artist, I paint. If I upload those images into the game I lose control of them. Yes I can still do what I please with the work in RL, but Linden owns the online reproduction. This I have a problem with. So I won't be loading up any images from my rl life work.
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Peter Linden
Registered User
Join date: 18 Nov 2002
Posts: 177
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With regards to the post deletions..
03-05-2003 11:30
Let me clarify one thing with relation to Pat's (and Rivn's) posts.
I was deleting the posts yesterday that denigrated to personal attacks. In my haste, I also deleted a couple of posts that were relevent to the conversation. My apologies to those people and my thanks to Pat for saving them and reposting them.
Please see the forum post policies for more information as to why the posts were removed.
'nuff said.
-Peter
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