A public apology to Charlie Omega

After thinking about it for a while last night, I decided that I owe you an apology for being such a dick yesterday.

Although it is NO EXCUSE for my behaving the way I did and blocking your experiment, I thought maybe you might be a little more understanding with some background from my perspective.

Minding my own business one day I found myself knocked 3 sims away by the seat of a giant swing that had apparently come loose from its giant chains and crashed into me.
I said nothing.
An hour later I find the seat of the swing being the last thing I see as my client crashes.
I say nothing.
Not 10 minutes later the exact same thing happens AGAIN and I crash.
Hmmm how can I keep this from happening to me again?
I can report it and see if that fixes anything.
It didnt.

I know... I'll build myself a box and do my work inside of it.

Box built, everything is fine.... laggy as hell due to the extreme physics being displayed but no more crashes.

A week goes by, I pop out my box and go to work, in comes Tamahome Kobyashi, its not enough that the box is there, oh no, he has to get INSIDE the box!
Upon being asked to leave he decides it would be really funny to fill the box with Super Physics Balls 10 meters in diameter and knock me out of olive. Upon my return to olive he shoots me with some gun.
FINE!
Reported.
Now its at this point that I gather that he is told that he cant do things like that.
So... lets get a TON of these other moronic asshole friends of his and come stand on top of my little box and shoot the roof with guns and laugh and laugh and laugh... oh what fun!
REPORTED.
I gather he was told he couldnt do that either.
However, he would be allowed to come into my little private area and build away! As long as he isnt interfereing with me.
What is the point of building an area for yourself to have some privacy if no one will respect it?

NEXT DAY
Up goes my box and I begin working away.
Nick comes along and asks me to move MY box because it is in the way of HIS box. *sigh* after some debate, I decided to be nice and move it and give him his space and get back to work...
TINK TINK TINK TINK TINK TINK TINK TINK TINK TINK TINK ad infinitum.
I shouted to please knock it off already, thanks!
Lance replied that I should turn my speakers off.
?!!??!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!
LAST STRAW as far as I was concerned.
I am sick and tired of other people getting away with not respecting me and yet I HAVE to respect others because its my nature?
I am supposed to turn off my sound because YOU want to make incessant noise?
I dont want to hear about olive being this or that.
I just want the same basic respect I offer to others.

If Lance had kept his F'in mouth shut, I am POSITIVE that You and I could have worked it out in a matter of micro seconds.
In fact there was Nick Fairlight giving me crap too and not 30 minutes before I had moved my area so he could set up his.

Now I dont know if I am dealing with a bunch of teenagers or what. In fact I dont care. The point is I over reacted to the situation based on frustration with the CONSTANT lack of respect for others in SL. And for that, I am sorry.
However, I will NOT apologize to Lance for ANYTHING due to him being nothing but a mealy mouthed punk in the situation yesterday.
And oh yeah... one more thing...
My opinion of Olive apparently differs significantly from the rest of you. I see Olive as a place to experiment, and you yourself admitted in another post that most of what you are doing there is just plain obnoxious....

Just because you CAN do something, doesnt always mean you SHOULD. And anyone that thinks Olive is there for the express purpose of being crashed should be banned.
Then again, thats just MY opinion.
So, again, for my actions I apologize.
But for the incessant frustration I have been dealing with in SL, especially with people like Lance and Tamahome?
They need their heads caved in.
You treat others how you would want to be treated, not how they treat you.
Flame away if you disagree... its not like I will care.
This was just a little attempt to clear the air with Charlie, who makes some quite impressive things, annoying or not.

Quite frankly I respect your apology here, and I also understand your frustration.

Olive IS NOT a place to be JUST PLAIN OBNOXIOUS. This is NOT why it was put up, this is NOT what the developers had planned for it, and IT SHOULD NOT be used in this way.

Olive IS supposed to be a place where people would experiment and get things "right" before bringing them into a populated SIM. IT'S NOT A PLAYGROUND as some have turned it into.

I find it extremely annoying myself when certain people in Olive choose to make items, and allow them to escape from the confines of the Pit, and then do nothing to track them down. You are ALL supposed to be Adults! Clean up your messes will you!

I personally have asked that Olive be moved to a SIM that can only be reached through Teleport, and does not border any other SIM's. This way, all the obnoxious users of Olive can go Tower Toppling, Swinging, Rocket Shooting, and Firework Shooting til their hearts content, and the rest of us civilized players can live in peace!

It is big of you to apologize. It seems like there is unnecessary drama in Olive. I have had a run-in with one of the people you mentioned as well. Hit me up in-game and I'll send you a bitmap showing exactly what kind of player he is.

Or I could just post it here in front of God and the world, if he is foolish enough to provoke me again.

So anyway, I have him muted. It's a great reminder, seeing (MUTED) in front of someone's name. He's the only person I've ever had muted for more than a couple days. It makes it kind of hard for him to apologize, if he is ever inclined, but at least I can pick him out in a crowd.

I feel your pain Chris. I gave up going to Olive because it crashes so much and because there are too many rabble rousers.

I have to disagree. The sandbox IS a playground. Sandboxes are found at playgrounds, not research facilities. The zoning guideline signs located at the sandbox dont point out "how" it should be used.

I agree that some behavior in the sandbox is excessive, but you have to expect to see fanciful, mammoth builds there that would not be ordinarily built in regular regions.

I also am impressed with Chris' apollogy. Its too bad so many people seem to be giving you a hard time Chris

I don't know why people feel the need to go to olive to experiment. I only go to Olive if I dont have enough land in Rose to build my experiment (like my maze). If I have enough land, I just do it in Rose And ya, Rose has crashed because of me in the past

Loki:

I have no issue with mammoth builds, I do have issues with people who make their mammoth builds physical and knock them down.

The "Sandbox" IS NOT named "Sandbox" it's named OLIVE. The definition for olive is a fruit with a pit in it. It's name doesn't imply you should go there and be obnoxious or disrespect those around you.

Just because there are no set out rules on a sign doesn't mean it becomes a free-for-all. There are no signs on the highways that say you shouldn't run other cars off the road, but we all seemingly get along well enough there and know what's right and wrong.

If LL needs to post a sign with a set of rules/conditions on usage, they might as well open the game up to the younger crowd, because that's who needs to have rules posted for them.

Respect needs to be granted no matter where you are in the world. Being in Olive is no reason to suddenly decide you can act any way you want and the rest of the world be damned.

I don't mind the occassional bump from Olive, or even the occassional lost object. I do mind the constant noise that some people seem to get some childish glee out of, and their constant disregard for the annoyance they are causing on the bordering SIM's.

If I chose to build a house in a SIM and put in bouncing balls that carrened through the house 24/7 and left the collision noise on, that would be a violation of the rules. So why is it that the people in Olive are allowed to do the very same thing without regard to their neighbors? The short and simple answer is, they aren't!

As I stated a few weeks ago, I will report any abuse of noise collisions in Olive without a warning to those doing it. I've asked time and again that people respect the surrounding SIM's only to be met with gruff. So, if these people choose to be annoying, I will choose to excercise my rights and complain.

Sorry, I should not have posted here. I did not mean to distract from Christopher's apology.

Um, Chris, add my name to that apology and I'll accept it.

It's not like my feelings weren't hurt when you flat out denied me my sandbox rights

Now that we're asking for apologies, i'd kinda like one for the time Mr. Nomad told me he wanted to 'bitch slap' me.......

Wow Chris, I understand why you reacted that way geesh, I'd even be a bit rash after all that. I didn't see your shout when you nicely asked to knock it off sry too.

As posted in the other thread I started I now have a packaged up script I have started putting in my physical or moving objects.

As for the swing heh dang thats messed up. I would have deleted it if I knew it caused that much grief. I do understand the troubles ya went through. I created the swing as a "playground" toy/experiment on how much the physics could handle. Not to cause grief. I'll try to be more carefull next time.

I do try to be nice mostly, and I agree that we could have came to some sort of mid ground quickly if the situation was a bit different.

But as Olive is for playing/experimenting (everyone has a bit of a different take on it) I learned to make my stuff quieter and stay in bounds

I also do have an apology to you and Bob.
I don't always consider neighbors when in my 1st life I am in a real crappy mood after dealing with my ex and not getting to see my son. But as alot of people do here, SL is a form of escapism for me. Unfortunatly I at times take out my frustrations in world regardless of passerbys.

I think we in adition to my proposal of multiple sandbox sims think we need a sim designated as "Stress Relief" where ANYthing goes LOL.

In repsonce to the mentions of intentionally crashing sims:

Most or actually all my experiments are just that, experiments to see if they are deadly to the sim. I do not intentionally setout to kill the sim.

But I think that some experiments are if successful still not appropiate for "home" sims. as they do effect sim performance. So I play with them in Olive.

I wonder if the lindens could put an information koisk in Olive that gives the script I use to stop noise, die at edge, and die on touch. Not a set of rules koisk, but a tools giver that helps stuff in there be more friendly.

Thx for the apology, and back at ya, because as with most conflicts, both sides are wrong and right, even if they are unintended wrongs.

Well I haven't been around for a long time, but from my past experience i saw the sandbox as a place created mostly for physics testing.


Many people tested physics in many sims and constantly crashed them, when Olive was first put up all the physics testers went there and didn't bother anyone (other than the problem of objects flying accross borders) but wouldn't be crashing someones sim.

I think the problem with the definition of the sandbox is that they created a sandbox for trial users which was more for building and making sure their objects were deleted when done.... that should have been called something else.

In my opinion the Sandbox should be used for physics testing (this is how people make great physical objects and help better design things).

I don't understand why someone needs to build something in Olive, can you not find a tract of empty land? If you are building something big, I assume it has to fit on your land you own, so if your land is big enough build it there. Please explain why people are building in olive and maybe i'll better understand the other side.

but physics users were there first and from my understanding of the area that should be its main purpose.

JV

A little off topic but important still:

One big problem I've had with my physics testings is nobody actually tells me it's a problem for them (sometimes they do, but I don't hear it because I am not paying attention to chat or am out of range) and a lot of people just go ahead and call a linden or report.

All I'm saying is, if you have a problem, get directly to the source and make your point clear. Don't shout to the creator, IM them and make sure they reply back. Most people I know who do what I do (crash HUGE towers and such) will listen to you and probably stop the problem. Make sure they hear you or you'll be dealing with more of the inconvenience.

I think that an easy rule of thumb is that if your physics experiment has brought the sim FPS below 35, it is time to stop. Other people do not want to feel like they are swimming through molasses.

Lagging physics can also have unintended side-effects for OTHER people's physics experiments. I was testing a missile once while physics were lagged. It moved around veeerrrrrrrrry slowly, impulses being applied the whole while. Well as it turns out, those impulses got kind of "backed up" and when physics returned to normal the thing bolted like greased lightning! I found it embedded in the side of a hill in another sim.

I don't want to take sides or throw myself into the fray here, just thought I'd add my opinion:

Olive IS a sandbox, last time I checked.
I THINK physics experiments are not only allowed but encouraged
LAST TIME I CHECKED, the signs in Olive said "simple scripts" were allowed. I would interpret this as both an invitation to experiment and a reminder that all the land is public, so anything that severely affects the sim or others on it should be kept at your own place.

And another thing: experimentation is fine, but once you have confirmed your object's destructive or annoyance power, using it is no longer "experimenting". At this point it is best to take it to the outlands or another dangerous zone, where it belongs. Controversy is nothing new to them.

Feel free to respond, but please don't jump all over me and tear me to pieces
-Pippin

I agree with alot of the "complaints" people have about olive but it's never been to the point that I've reported anything. I guess the worst thing was leaving physics experiments sitting with the sim empty, not being used...dragging the sim's fps to 10. I know the stuff is automatically deleted once a night but that doesn't mean people won't be trying to use olive between the time you finish and the time it's cleaned...

The other thing I'd like to say--perhaps there should be two sandboxes, one for those doing less-intensive, less harmful, less risky, or totally safe (building, etc) stuff, and another sandbox for the "anything goes" stuff that may crash the sim or whatever. The anything goes sandbox would probably remain Olive (I think it's a powerful machine they are using there). To answer the question about why people build in Olive: taxes, lack of good land, lack of land in areas with low visual pollution, lack of knowledge where to find empty land, construction of huge builds that cannot be supported by one person in a normal sim...perhaps they just like building stuff for the fun of it and don't need it to exist 24/7. I'm sure there's other reasons.

I'm also a little distressed that it seems that so many people think it's fun or cool to crash a sim...I'll always try my best to never cause a sim to crash, even olive. Unless you're the only one in there, you just don't know what kind of grief you might be causing someone else.

Banning certain kinds of behavior will hinder innovation and slow down "research" for scripters so that's not really a great option...but I'm also concerned that Olive seems to be used for more than just testing dangerous scripts. (I have no problem taking action against the intentional greifing annoying behavior that some people are talking about.) I'd be in favor of taking down a campground sim and making it into a "safe" sandbox that shouldn't be pushed to it's limits or have risky scripts run on it...but that'll probably never happen.

Olive really should be moved away from the other sims.

As far as building in Olive, I quite often test/building things there first since it is much easier to select multiple objects if everyone else's stuff is nto in view to link together.

As far as physics test, if they were discouraged in Olive, other sims would have more issues. Test away, IMHO.

As far as respect, well, I think if someone is about to do something that could potentially take down the sim, I think a few minutes warning to others could be a nice idea. Just a simple "I'm about to run potentially hazardius script, ya'll may want to take a copy of your stuff" could help prevent grief.

Excellent post Alondria, being able to see both sides is a great skill.

The slides that were the first fun physics done in Olive was the most fun i've ever had in SL (well maybe other than launch night, man that was a wild time), and as you say if the physics testers go elsewhere we will end up with other sims crashing yet again. I still favor having physics in Olive over building but i see your point and your compromise is perfect.

JV

Right, it was OUTRAGEOUS of me to tell you to turn your speakers off- to ask you to play without sound- while charlie put in a silent collison script!

Everyone else- For people giving him a hard time- Get real. He reported someone for STANDING ON HIS BOX that he was working in. Poor him.

Edit: I noticed there are some lacking details in your story- Well, maybe its true if you consider blocking what charlie was doing before talking to him about it "asking" politely.

what we need (on the other side of Olive away from regular sims) is a stess-reliever/greifer sim. where anything and everything goes. damage not on so no killing, just make big builds, bring down the sim, smack people, big scripts ect, and something that will keep sound from travelling to other sims. and if there is a greifer somewhere, instead of a linden booting em just make em teleport to the griefer sim

That's kinda what I'm trying to say, although I'm not sure exactly how that would best be done. I definitely wouldn't want to call it the "griefer sim" or have it become called "the griefer sim"...lol

The way I'd do it (may not be best) is to take down a campground or find a low-end server to become "Olive", and move the Olive machine (which I assume is a good server) into the "safe" area where it can be crashed and stuff. But there'd have to be a free teleport function...people aren't going to pay to go there or something.

Let me be perfectly clear on this:

I don't mind if someone is testing a script or a new idea. What I do mind is those people who are in Olive being obnoxious and KNOWINGLY annoying the neighboring SIMs.

Testing is one thing, toppling a tower over and over and over is another.

If you are testing something, how hard would it be to turn off object collision in your script? I don't mind the objects flying out of Olive occassionally, but I do mind the constant object collision noise we have to endure, and sometimes for hours on end.

Lastly, Derek, I've asked you repeatedly to stop making so much noise, and you have NOT done so. Why should I take my complaint directly to you when I know you aren't going to listen? It might sound nice to say, "If you come to me directly we can work things out", but in reality Derek, you and a few others, don't care to work things out, you only care to be as obnoxious as you can get away with.

I wasn't going to post to this at first, because it's now all been said and it's just going round in circles about "rights" (SL doesn't have a Bill of Rights, just some behavior rules, at those don't really apply to most of the complaints about Olive... but yeah, some actions can be annoying) and about separating the Sandbox sim from the rest of the world.

All I wanted to mention was that the sandbox can't be a sim on it's own. If it crashes, people would have to reconnect up on the mainland and re-teleport back out. That would be frustrating if they can't tell when it's up by sight.

I'd suggest (if the Lindens decide to isolate the sandbox) that TWO sims get set aside, separate from the rest of the world but next to each other. This way if one goes down, people will reconnect in the other. Also, scripts that deal with sim boundaries can be tested in a safe environment. If one sim is a pit and one is a plateau, the pit can be mainly for physical experiments and the plateau mainly for scripts. Just expect the two to mix when multi-disciplinary experiments are run.

Travel to and from this Island of Experimentation would be free via the telehubs, of course.

Call them "Laurel" and "Hardy" or something.