Another music thread - Lyrics

I'm normally a Lyrics person. Lyrics are always the first thing to get my attention in a song, over the music or vocals. Something may have great musical composition, but if the lyrics are mediocre, or just don't grab me, then the song won't do anything for me. Some of my favorites, I've begun to realize, are favorites more as poets, or lyricists, than as musicians, singers or bands. Other times, the lyrics are great, but when sung by the wrong artist, they lose their atmosphere. (For a perfect example, compare Tom Wait's song Downtown Train as sung by Rod Stewart, then as sung by Tom Waits. They take on a whole new grittiness with Tom Wait's whiskey-and-Lucky-Strike vocal stylings.)

I want to know who you folks think have some outstanding lyrics, who may otherwise escape detection for not being catchy or mainstream enough, or not fit into any particular genre with a large fan-base. Basically, who am I missing that I should be looking out for? (Feel free to post examples and/or links!)

Some of my list for great lyrics:

Elvis Costello. I've been reading through a lot of his lyrics lately as I searched for the name of a song, (Wave a White Flag is what it turned out to be) and realized that I really, really love what he has to say, and the way he says it.

The Pogues/Shane MacGowen. From crassly humorous to poignant to inspirational. Hard to believe he wrote most his songs piss drunk.

Leonard Cohen. The 60+ year old Canadian Jewish Buddhist with a flair for the apocalyptic. Somehow, he seems to tell of cynicism and hope at the same time, which is not an easy combination to master. "Ring the bells that still can ring. Forget your perfect offering. There is a crack, a crack in everything.. that's how the light gets in."

Tom Waits. He's gritty. He's bluesy. He's great imagery. "The girl behind the counter has a tattood tear.. 'One for every year he's away' she said. Such a crumbling beauty. Ahh, there's nothing wrong with her a hundred dollars won't fix."

Prefab Sprout. Whimsical. At times abstract. But they have a way with the zinging one liners that always makes me grin, sniffle or 'hmm' depending on the song. "If they can dance on the head of a pin.. don't that tell you something about their skin? Hard faced little bastards."

The Judybats. Like no other band I know, they have a way of making the most cynical and sarcastic of lyrics sound downright peppy and zippy through their use of uptempo music, and sometimes making the very crass seem ordinary. "This circle jerk that we call friends, it's a sick little doe-see-doe. Are these friends of mine or friends of yours? There's no single face I know."

Nick Cave. Murder Ballads was the perfect name for one of his CDs, because it almost perfectly describes his general style.

Joy Division. What I consider to be one of the first and best 'goth' bands ever. (Regardless of them not being technically 'goth'.) The singer led a dreary and fucked up life before his suicide (right before the launch of their American tour) and it's very much reflected in Ian Curtis's haunting lyrics. "Here are the young men, a weight on their shoulders. Here are the young men, well where have they been? We knocked on the door of Hell's darkest chambers.. Pushed to the limits, we dragged ourselves in."

I'm sure there are many others I'm forgetting, but I don't want to go on and on, any more than I already have.

So what have you got? What lyrics move you, whether it's your usual genre of music or not?

not sure my music tastes will interest anyone but .......

Mac Davis: not too well know since everyone thinks of him in terms of 3 or 4 hits he had back in the 70's i.e. Stop & Smell the Roses & One Hell of a Woman. Probably better known in the music world as a writer of such songs as Watchin' Scotty Grow & In The Ghetto. Brilliant musical talent as well. It's Real life, be it sad, happy, or playful he's got it.

Most of the stuff I listen to is probably "mainstream" LMAO if you wanna call it that. I think I'm 1 of 4 who will admit to listening to Jimmy Buffett, Mac Davis and the like.

There's a passage from the opera (sorry) Carmen that I've always liked.
This is sung by smugglers sneaking over a treacherous mountian road



I've kinda adapted it to a metaphor for life and luck (good and bad):

Fortune and danger lurk everywhere- watch for the former and watch out for the latter.


~Olympia

I hope this response isn't off-topic, but I'm personally the opposite: for me the music makes the song. One reason (I think) is because often I can't pick out or understand what the lyrics actually are. Partly that's the fault of the singer -- but even ones with clear diction often make me struggle. Don't know why.

As a result it doesn't matter for me what language a song is in. English, French, Italian, German, Japanese, Arabic, Hebrew, Tibetan, Chinese... I've got CDs with them all. So may I ask, does your lyrical affinity hamper your enjoyment of songs in languages you don't know?

If this is too off topic please let me know, and I'll edit this post and start a new thread. But I'm curious and thought it germane

Sometimes it does hamper my enjoyment, not only of songs sang in languages foreign to me, but also of instrumentals. There are some of each I appreciate. I love Dead Can Dance, and they're often singing in a foreign language. Cocteau Twins, who often sing in no language at all. I love the music from most of the Cirque du Soliel programs. One of my brothers got me hooked on some mariachi and salsa type music, and also zydeco, which is often sung in French/Creole/Cajun.. whichever is appropriate, not sure.

In order for me to really grab onto a foreign language song, the music has to either be spectacular, or be interesting/catchy enough to keep me listening anyway.

Beck has some of the most bizarre lyrics for a main stream artist. I think only he could pull off what he does and get away with it. He got Best Male Vocalist at the 1996 Grammy Awards with lyrics like this...

Some of my favorite Lyricists...

David Bowie = he can be so occultic with his lyrics(Quicksand). In that they make shady references to deep places in our psyche. Yet at the same time, he can weave something completely mundane into something provocative. (Wild Eyed Boy From Freecloud)

Dark Tranquility = a blackish metal band. Taking a look at their lyrics(as honestly, they're hard to discern through the vocal style), you see mysterious references(Monochromatic Stains: "like fingerprints on your heart...reading out the last lines of code", tinged with gothique.

Type O Negative = a personal, personal favorite. I enjoy the raw edge of TON's lyrics; the occasional purity of truth, and the sensual web of darkness.

Lyrics only break a song for me if it is hopelessly cliche without irony or if the singer tries to be clever or snarky and he's not particularly intelligent or witty. An example of the former is Creed. Examples of the latter are Trent Reznor (but not always, sometimes he is decent) or Fred Durst.

I am willing to forgive tepid or incomprehensible lyrics if the singer is really skilled or really passionate. Mars Volta is a good example of this (Most of the time I don't know what the hell is he singing about).

A personal favorite:

Marilyn Manson: "Everybody's someone else's ni**er, I know you are- so am I. I wasn't born with enough middle fingers, I don't need to choose a side."

Neil Young is one of my many favorites as far as
Lyrics.

Best lyricist? Why, Weird Al of course. No question.

The voice is an instrument. The emotion behind it is the most important element.

I listen to a lot of Japanese underground and I have no idea what they are singing about, but thats really okay because it allows me to make the song my own, in a way. I am able to paint my own imagery. The cadence and emotion of the singer conveys the feeling, if not the actual message.

Here is an example of what I mean, take a listen to this song and see if not actually understanding the words make a difference. I would be interested to hear what you think. If it feels like a hijack, please feel free to PM me here. [Sorry if a slow download, try later if busy] Antipas Group

I pointed out Beck's lyrics just to show that they dont really have to mean anything.

My favorite lyrics are those of Stan Ridgway, former singer of Wall of Voodoo. His solo stuff paints great imagery and his delivery is excellent. The way he breaks sentences to fit the mood of the song and his voice are uniquely his own.

The most influencial lyrics have come from the Dead Kennedys. I found them in my teens and they opened my eyes to the evils of the establishment and possibilities of rebellion.

and the voice to melt me... EVERY TIME....

Ok

Imma get shot down in FLAMES for this one, but Eminems 'Mockingbird', I think has some of the most heartfelt lyrics...


Hailie I know you miss your mom and I know you miss your dad
When I'm gone but I'm trying to give you the life that I never had
I can see you're sad, even when you smile, even when you laugh
I can see it in your eyes, deep inside you want to cry
Cuz you're scared, I ain't there?
Daddy's with you in your prayers
No more crying, wipe them tears
Daddy's here, no more nightmares
We gonna pull together through it, we gonna do it
Lainie uncle's crazy, aint he yeah?
But he loves you girl and you better know it
We're all we got in this world
When it spins, when it swirls
When it whirls, when it twirls
Two little beautiful girls
Lookin' puzzled, in a daze
I know it's confusing you
Daddy's always on the move, mamma's always on the news
I try to keep you sheltered from it but somehow it seems
The harder that I try to do that, the more it backfires on me
All the things growing up as daddy that he had to see
Daddy don't want you to see but you see just as much as he did
We did not plan it to be this way, your mother and me
But things have got so bad between us
I don't see us ever being together ever again
Like we used to be when we was teenagers
But then of course everything always happens for a reason
I guess it was never meant to be
But it's just something we have no control over and that's what destiny is
But no more worries, rest your head and go to sleep
Maybe one day we'll wake up and this will all just be a dream

[Chorus]


It's funny
I remember back one year when daddy had no money
Mommy wrapped the Christmas presents up
And stuck 'em under the tree and said some of 'em were from me
Cuz daddy couldn't buy 'em
I'll never forget that Christmas I sat up the whole night crying
Cuz daddy felt like a bum, see daddy had a job
But his job was to keep the food on the table for you and mom
And at the time every house that we lived in
*Either kept getting broken into and robbed
Or shot up on the block and your mom was saving money for you in a jar
Trying to start a piggy bank for you so you could go to college
Almost had a thousand dollars till someone broke in and stole it
And I know it hurt so bad it broke your momma's heart
And it seemed like everything was just startin' to fall apart
Mom and dad was arguin' a lot so momma moved back
Onto Chalmers in a flat one bedroom apartment
And dad moved back to the other side of 8 Mile on Novara
And that's when daddy went to California with his CD and met Dr. Dre
And flew you and momma out to see me
But daddy had to work, you and momma had to leave me
Then you started seeing daddy on the T.V. and momma didn't like it
And you and Lainnie were to young to understand it
That Papa was a rollin' stone, momma developed a habit
And it all happened too fast for either one of us to grab it
I'm just sorry you were there and had to witness it first hand
Cuz all I ever wanted to do was just make you proud
Now I'm sittin in this empty house, just reminiscing
Lookin' at your baby pictures, it just trips me out
To see how much you both have grown, it's almost like you're sisters now
Wow, I guess you pretty much are and daddy's still here
Lainie I'm talkin' to you too, daddy's still here
I like the sound of that, yeah
It's got a ring to it don't it?
Shh, momma's only gone for the moment

David Bowie I definitely agree with. I'm also impressed with how timeless his old stuff (usually, there are exceptions of course) is. If you didn't know it was written/recorded 20+ years ago, you wouldn't know by hearing it.

Type O Negative I'm only vaguely familiar with. I recall them being very into the 'I'm eeeeeeevil and depressed because of it' thing though. If you have some sample lyrics, I'd like to see them.

Loki, I listened to that song. (Not too long a download but had to play twice to get it without heavy buffering) While it's not my style of music, it's not what I was expecting to hear either. One of my brothers was really into Japanese pop bands for a while, so I got used to hearing the female singers with the really, really high pitched voices, throwing in English lyrics that didn't make a damn bit of sense. (Usually about food. Never figured that one out.) I'm going to listen to yours a couple more times, and stop trying to understand what they're saying.

And I've never understood Beck's lyrics. They don't paint any pictures for me. Some obscure or stream-of-consciousness lyrics I like because they have the ability to take me to a bunch of different mental places, but I haven't gotten that from Beck. I haven't listened to a lot of his stuff though. I did hear very good things about his new CD.

Marylin Manson, despite all the shock value, has some really good things to say. I think his songs are a lot more meaningful than a lot of people would realize. I'm especially fond of the lyrics to New Model No 15. Good stuff.

I consider the song to be the sum of its parts, lyrics included. They don't make the song for me, but they can break it if done poorly. If the lyrics are too self-conscious, or too clever, or too pop culture, or too cliched/cheesy, they just get in the way of the rest of the song.

Good lyrics are memorable. Great lyrics disappear.

Your love of Bowie is probably what makes you like the song, "New Model No 15" (since Mechanical Animals frequently alludes to his style). That's a good album. Three of his albums have a conceptual storyline in them and that album is one. M.A. is a struggle between the dichotomy of Manson's personas. One is the used-up, bored glam star, Omega (the result of reaching a personal apocalypse in Antichrist Superstar). The second is the Alien- the emotional self that he alienated in order to reach the superstardom/apocalypse. The alien seems to be searching for his humanity and all his songs are emotional while the glam star has made his name by escaping his. All the songs that are written one way belong to one persona, flip the insert over and the lyrics written the other way are the other's. Note that the Alien is A (the beginning) and Omega is the end, so the choice is between a new beginning and an end for him. Having two opposed sides would make a person pretty distraught so he sees himself as the "Suicide King," the double-headed playing card that is stabbing itself in both heads.

Manson also covered "Golden Years;" you could probably find it on a p2p network or on one of those 99c per song services.

It's a testament to humanity (or maybe just America?) at large that a very wide section of society wasn't willing to look beneath the image to find the artist until a shard was spoon fed to them in Bowling for Columbine. Such is life. Eh.

My favorite song writers would have to be Jerry Garcia and Bob Dylan taking a close second. I was way behind my time, was not alive in the 60's but hippy music has always been my flavor.

Funny thing both these guys are known to not have the best singing voices. I just seem to relate to so many of thier songs. Often I drift back to the past and old memories about people in my life when I hear them.

If we are talking recent music, Jack Johnson would be on the top of the list.

Jack Johnson is just so simple. His songs you can tell are from the heart and he just gets me thinking about life in general.

In regards to the unquoted part of your post.. I had no idea! Now I'm going to be keeping that in mind when I read/listen.

I really liked what Manson had to say in Bowling For Columbine. It was quite possibly the only section of the movie that didn't come off as preachy. (And I liked the movie.) While everyone else is pontificating and waxing philosophical, Manson just says he would have listened to the kids.

When Manson first came out, or hit the big time, my first reaction was, "Oh yay, another adult playing dress-up to appeal to the gothlings." (No disrespect to goths, but it seemed like he was just pandering.) I liked Beautiful People, but didn't pay much more attention to him. Then I skimmed an interview with him in.. I think Rolling Stone, and found myself going back to read start to finish. He came across as very intelligent, and very aware of himself and his own gimmick, and why he chose it. Not something you see someone admit to often. That article really earned him some respect from me. (And I'm sure he was yearning for that.) His honesty, as well as his entertainment-business savvy, was refreshing.

His music is still hit or miss with me, but I pay a lot more attention now than I would have before.

Since you're a Jerry Garcia fan, maybe you can tell me.. Is it the Jerry Garcia that was part of the band Old & In The Way? I find some of their songs listed as Old & In The Way, and others listed by a string of 3 artists, one called Jerry Garcia.

There's a saying a friend of mine used to say, "There's an old saying my friend used to say, 'No one's really Gothic.' " With that in mind, every self-proclaimed Goth I've ever met hates Manson (and in equal regards there are a lot of Manson fans who wouldn't want to be called Goth).

His first album, "Portrait of an American Family," is generally pretty terrible but the clues are there for those listening that he is more than just image. For example, he references Anton LaVey's "Goodguy Badge" essay on the song "Get your Gunn" when he says "Pseudo-morals work real well on the talk shows for the weak, but your selective judgment and Goodguy Badges don't mean a f*ck to me!"

The "weak" reference was probably a reference to Nietzsche (which he also said he was reading), but I have a feeling that he fell out of any Nietzschean ideals after Antichrist Superstar when the paradox of the ubermensch brought him into ultimate conflict with himself (-How can you think yourself superior to everyone else when you also can never be satisfied with yourself? Ultimately you betray yourself too.)

"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger" ...except when you end up wasted and with a lot of ugly scars and you still see yourself as the same waste of life you were before.

In the words of Vonnegut, "So it goes."

I couldn't say I have a *favorite* artist - mainly because I really have no real favorite style of music, nor really a favorite musician (one above all others)..

That being said - lyrics (in music that has lyrics) to me is very important... If someone doesn't have something worth saying, then what really is the point of listening?

And I'm not ashamed to say that I like listening to Matchbox 20 or Cat Stevens

Siggy.

Yes, in the early 70's Garcia wanted to revist his roots, Bluegrass.They had one or two hits.

It was him, Grisman, Peter Rowan and a whole cast of Blue rass muscians.

Yay! Glad to hear that. I've managed to steal a couple mp3s by them, but since the others were listed with the individual names, I didn't download for fear they'd be something different. I'm guessing Old & In The Way and Land of the Navajo were the hits.

I'm partial to, "If you're really a Goth, where were you when we sacked Rome?"

You could also ask where they keep their flying buttresses.