YourSecondLife.com

This web site is now shut down. I have left Second Life due to policy choices on the part of Linden Lab and Philip Rosedale that allow people to abuse others. Tolerance, diversity, freedom of expression, and creativity are all impossible when abusers are allowed to run amok. It is grossly disappointing that before public release, even before public beta, Second Life has rapidly turned into just another 3DVR cesspool.

Kerstin Taylor

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I guess I haven't decided if she is acting like a child or was actually wronged in some way. I do believe any posts, flames should have been removed since she is so active in the world and contributed so much to it. I think if you weigh what she has contributed to SL and what the individuals she was arguing with have, then we got the short end of the stick.

Xavier

I have been observing the discussions as a completely dis-interested third party, and I won't go into my opinions on them since that will only inflame things further.

I will say however that if someone is truly interested in "freedom of expression" they should not support the removing of threads where people express themselves freely. This is NOT a personal attack, merely an observation of truth.

I have seen stong sentiments expressed, but I have not seen any true abuses.

Second Life is a great game. May we all learn to get along, even when we disagree

Just to present a counter-opinion for any new people who might be frightened by all this, or any Lindens who are now saying "what have we gotten ourselves in to?" and crying in their beer:

My experience with Second Life has been nothing but positive. The people I've met have ranged only between friendly and netural, and I've never had a (non-technical) problem.

Communities are made up of people, and some people are jerks, but most people aren't. As the population goes up, the number of jerks goes up, and the perceived ratio of jerks goes up because one or two jerks can make trouble for a lot of people, so things like ignore lists and human arbitrators will be necessary, but that's how it goes.

(please note that all statements presented above are broad generalities).

I agree her threads should be removed from the board since she is no longer here , and the notice on her website is degradation towards SL

i don't have any details as to what really conspired, but I will say this. In a true live virtual world, one can not exprect a staff of Lindens to work out personal quarrel between two parties. It is not Linden responsibility to police the world.

It is the right of the involved people to treat eachother civilly and ignore one another.

Like I said I don't know what conspired,
I am sad to see Kerstin go.

But I do not think generalizing the entire experience into a 3DVR cesspool is fair to LL or to us.

I have had a very positive experience in SL. I have had bad experiences in other games from both griefers and people which are there to harrass. Which is why an ignore option is required.
my 2 cents

I can't believe this whole thing started over a remark about the price of a texture!

When Rivn was jumping down Kerstin's throat about the sanctity of his prices it would have been nice if some of the level heads would have stepped in and made soothing remarks about how we all need to get along.

I think Kerstin feelings were very hurt by the use of profanity and the vindictive tone of Rivn's messages. And to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't care for it much either.

And I ask, who on this message board would like to be referred to as "full of shit". I never saw anyone on this board speak so disrespectfully to another person...until Rivn.

But it's Kerstin that leaves, and suddenly her remarks are dissected and considered inappropriate? Go figure.

I think we all have a responsibility to convey our opinions in a constructive and respectful way. And IMHO, Rivn dropped the ball on the "respect" (and was touch and go on the "constructive" part of that exchange.

Apparently there are no consequences if you choose to be foul-mouthed and coarse. Instead, the consequences are paid by those who are actually hurt by such behavior.

This rather upsets me. I consider Kerstin a friend and someone who has contributed greatly to the community. Most of what I've seen Rivn post has been flames towards anyone who doesn't like his idea. Maybe this doesn't really represent him, but it's certainly how he's come across on the boards.
The funny thing is, he's still here, and she's gone... after he threatened to leave.
I'm really disappointed.

ya know what Datura , let someone sit here and Lie about you and LETS just see how long it takes you to get defencive and call for the proof to be shown!

she lied then changed her story a few times here on this Board , all I asked was for the truth and as SOON as I posted asking the Lindens to provide me with the IM data she quits !!
whats that tell ya ?????


so like or dont I could care less the facts still remain the facts!

dont bother looking for those posts they were locked and then removed but alot of people seen where I asked for the evidence to be posted heree By Linden Labs

I am trying to process this all, amongst my time being taken up with RL also. Now one thing is for sure....None of us are AI's right??? We all have REAL LIVES. Now in real life it has its troubles, its jerks, its good points and bad points. Now if someone IRL got under your skin, what would you do? Think about it then apply it here.

Now since I have had experience as a RL merchant, I would Never treat a coustomer like crap because they complained of high prices. If I swore at a customer, how long do you think that person would stay in the store? If they stayed a while it sure wouldn't be to express their appreciation for my attitude.

Now on that note how many of their friends would come into my store after finding out my customer service relation skills? None.

The only real differences that make a big impact from SL to RL in this situation is the fact that there is not Forum to post to, that everyone in the real world sees. Here we have that. So of course if you continually complain about someone or cus someone out, it will get out of control. I bet that many people were wanting to interject in this but were afraid to, givin the current financial status and previous financial worries in SL. The ratings system is to tied to a persons sucess or failure financially in SL.

This should not have gone this far. And I am thinking that hopefully people will continue to read these threads NONE should be deleted, so as to learn from this rather large mistake so it doesnt happen again!

My general conclusion to this is If someone don't like me or my store or my prices I am not going to go start some crap and get everyone worked up. Nor will I encourage further public outbursts by egging on that person that has a problem with me. Further more, the only thing that I would consider offensive or wrong for someone to sell or practice to gain profit, is to sell someone else's items that were attained free or cheaper then they are reselling without the original creators input or profit from it.

In general if you didn't make it don't sell it with out asking the maker first.

As far as how else people make money. Who cares.....If it ain't hurting me and they are not stealing my works. Then why should I care???

The only thing that they did or do is got the idea before I did. If they are not cheating then why complian?? Who cares if they are making money or not.

Yes I know this seems like I am taking sides but I really am not trying to, Kerstin was a close friend in here to me, but hey IRL we defend our friends, also IRL we don't always agree with them either. That is a part of life.

I think it went to far and both Rivn and Kerstin should have confided in their friends and left it out of the forums, regardless who said what and who started it.

Rivn did have a conflict b4 with someone and walked away friends so why can't it be done here?? But some things are not ment to be, so this topic should not continue other then this thread, and it should not be smeared across the entire forum.

Some people are hurt easier than others, so everyone should think about how to respond and where to respond to that person's ranting.

I am truely sorry if I offend anyone with this, I do not want to feed the fire. I am not a person that will have the urge to get the last word in. So don't expect to argue with me if I did offend you. Cuz I wont.

I'll tell you what I DID see, Rivn. I saw you flaming Kersin. I saw you insulting Shebang. I saw you insulting everyone else when you were 'leaving'. At no point did I see you acting like a mature, rational human being who only wants to work things out.
To tell you the truth, I honestly have no idea what you two were arguing about. Something about your textures being too expensive. But I CAN judge by your behavior on these boards.
Your language and your attitude need some SERIOUS work, or this won't be the first time you upset people. Blaming the community for being 'clickish' and ignorant when you seem to put no effort into acting like an adult isn't going to get you in anyone's good graces.

from what i saw you were the one who told her she was "full of shit"....you went on the offensive...and were offensive in doing so....all Kerstin did was say "I didn't do that"..."I didn't say that"....and the like.....what you said was..."You did this" and "You said that"....you went after her....she merely defended herself.....(without attacking you mind you)...that's what I saw from the outside

I think it's time to just take a step back and calm down for a bit....if you don't calm down, you run the risk of making yourself look bad.....Just an observation.

It's time to put this discussion in the past...I hope Kerstin isn't leaving for good...I rather enjoyed having her around....just do the sensible thing and keep your distance from those you can't get along with....it's best for everyone.

PS - this is just my observation....I dont' intend to argue the point...just give you something to think about.

Charlie ....
That is the MOST sensible Post I have read here to date on this issue!!!
Thank you for haveing the Guts to post it !!

This is the LAST time I will post on this Issue period
so if anyone wants to flame me do so knowing I will NOT respond , i admit I got a lil to involved in this issue and overheated ... although I stand by my statements as to what actually happened to get this going, I wish EVERYONE that got involved directly or inderectly could have had cooler tones in the posts ...
Charlie has set an example here that I hope we all can learn to follow ...
If it gets to intence walk awaywhether your in the right or wrong let it die...
The person with the last word isnt always the one who wins the arguement, and sometimes there in NO winner, nor does there have to be..

If I could change things I would have stated my point and left it BUT I cant do that now not at this juncture..

If kerstin reads the Boards yet and I suspect she probably does because its very hard to just quit something you enjoy and not still peek inside as best you can...
But if she does look at them or someone talks to her on ICQ, AIM or whatever... I want her to know I want her to come back to SL.
We dont have to speek , we dont have to even act as though the other person exists if she prefers it that way , but there is no need for her to just not be here..She loved this game to much for it to be gone over an arguement ..

I am not sorry for wanting the truth but I am sorry that it came to this, and I am sorry I wasnt more of a sugar coated poster, Im not good at trying to sugar coat things ..

I have always been 100% shoot from the hip, take me as I am of dont at all, But 1 thing i can promise EVERYONE here and that is Honesty.. I have no reason to lie to anyone here, I pay my own bills in my own House and have my own family , im not here to try and impress anyone , like me or hate me im who I am, and you always know what I tell you is How I truely feel .... I need to learn candy coating though It is a fault , but we all have faults

Thanks for the apology. Can we all move on now?!

If I sound as if I'm coming down here I didnt intend it that way. I simply meant to state that I dont think generalizing the entire SL experience as a cesspool is fair. Thats it.
I'm not taking sides. I meant to generalize.

I did not mean to flame or hurt or make anything worse. If this is indeed what I have done you all have my apologies. I would rescind my post but I fear that would worsen things.
I've made things worse anyway. I am sorry.