Object Resale - Used Objects

Last month I purchased an object from the original maker. Used it, Loved it. I got bored and decided to sell the “no-copy/no-modify” object in my shop this week. It was removed by a Linden. After explaining that I was selling the ORIGIONAL and NOT a copy I was given my item back minus the rez fee. I’m NOT talking about making copies of an object and selling them. What? I cant sell an object that I no longer want? I was told I need to get the original creators permission first. Please clarify this situation.

Am I purchasing a license to USE the object or the right to OWN (use, delete, sell) the object as a tangible object?

Guess i should take down my used object shop huh?

I don't see what the problem with this is. If I sell one of my chairs, it's no mod, no copy. And someone else can sell that specific item. What's wrong with that?

I'd much rather have objects circulating around the economy than people with inventories full of stuff they don't use and only keep because the ToS say they can't exchange it.

It may be virtual property, but that doesn't mean that it should be licensed like software.

Incidentally, what's really needed is another owner permissions tag -- "Transfer to others". Like "modify" and "copy", we need a technological method to be able to determine whether or not the NEW owner of an object can transfer ownership of that item to someone else.

Catherine


PS, on a side note, you should definitely be asking about your rez fee -- not getting a refund doesn't sound right to me. It's possible they just forgot to give it or there was a bug. Hopefully it wasn't too much money in any case.

This is a pretty stupid situation. The liason should have looked into the matter before acting. I am getting sick of the way they give troublemakers seemingly neverending "benefits of a doubt" before ejecting them, and yet are quick to jump on reputable and responsible residents. I saw the hoverboard that Eznil was selling a couple days ago and it was very clear he was selling the original.

I suppose you are depriving the original creator of a sale (unless the object was a one-off in the fist place) as whoever bought the second-hand version could have gone and bought a brand new one.

Don't have a problem with it personally.

Well there has been no problem with yard sales and other types of sales of second hand merchandise up to now. buying an object shouldn't have to mean that we are stuck with it forever. I usually give stuff i dont want to newbs, but the hoverboards are kind of expensive to be giving away.

interesting.. seems they've gone from doing nothing to doing something without talking. Its a step but man. I see nothing wrong with selling a single copy. Its transfer of ownership, not theft.

Okay, even though Eznil was kind enough not to name any names, I'm going to step up to the bat on this one. I am the Liaison in question, and while I am still learning, there is no excuse for how this played out.

Eznil, I was not aware that you did not receive the rez cost back, and thankfully Char was around this morning to reimburse you for it. Had I gotten your IM before I logged for the night, I would have given it to you then. So first I must apologize for this.

Secondly, while on one hand it makes sense to at least ask the permission of the creator before reselling - if nothing else so that situations like this do not occur - it also seems perfectly reasonable that you should be able to make back some (or all) of the money you spent so long as the original copy is being sold and it is still set no-copy and/or no-modify. This was certainly the case, so again, I apologize.

It didn't occur to me to check that it was just the original - I should have and I learned a very valuable lesson from this. The situation has understandably aggrivated several people at least a bit, and I can promise that in the future if I am called to look into a report of this nature, I will make sure it's the original being sold before taking any action!

Residents, I promise did not set out to anger anyone or over-act; I was simply responding to a concerned resident's request to help, and did not take all the facts into account before acting. I apologize to all of you as well.

Just to clarify for anyone left wondering, it is alright for people to sell objects made by someone else if they sell the original set no copy/no mod or have permission from the creator. To do otherwise would be considered theft.

By all means Eznil, keep your shop up. You are no thief, only an honest business person, and I'm so sorry that I gave you reason to feel otherwise.

Nova,

You're a class act.

I think it's courtesy to send an IM to the original maker. At least give them the option to object, approve, or possibly offer you a refund!

If someone is unhappy with an object they purchase from me, I will refund their money. Obviously other merchants have different return policies. All I suggest is asking before you take action.

Perhaps when object protections are improved across the board. And pirating is not such a problem, then used item sales will not cause confusion.

But, in the mean time, have some sensitivity to this problem. Check with the owner first. Maybe "certify" your used items as approved for sale with a little note card documenting that you have the original owner's permission and a LM to the original shop where the buyer can find more such items.

While you are definitely within the letter of the law to re-sell No copy/No modify items, I think notifying the owner would be the considerate thing to do.

I had the same thing happend. I had permission to sell it and I placed it in a linden owned store and it was deleted with them contacting me AFTER it happend, after they deleted it and I too lost the cost of the item, which was a hefty one I think the object is about 250!!!! It was a copyable object, but I had permission to sell it.


and besides, if someone doesnt want people selling there objects, its simple, put it no copy no mod.

When i buy an item I am the owner and I say I decide what to do with it. Dont mean to offend any creators out there - but I am not gonna ask permission to sell my property. I would of course never, and I emphazise that, sell anything other than the original! That was my only purchace so that is the only thing I am the owner of too.

Its important not to mix up owner and creator here. The creator got his/her money. I guess they didnt ask the buyer what to do the money they got

Matina,
The issue arises because there are problems where some items lack permissions and some items are sold and lose permissions because of a glitch. If you say, buy a pair of jeans from me and want to sell that one pair you still have it in your inventory, Some people have gone on to sell many copies. That is basicly theft.

Currently if you sell a prim based item from a box and put the item in the box as no coy/no modify it comes out with the permissions stripped. (This is an anti griefing thing as far as I understand).

So, stealing the income of another player is wrong. BUT... if you do buy a no copy no mod item and want to sell that single copy it's NOT theft IMHO.

Taylor,

Linden owned stores have a policy that if you are not the creator of an object you must have permission and the manager (me) of the Linden store must know this from noted creator. This rule is posted at the Linden stores at the information kiosk with other rules that also apply there. Linden stores posses stricter rules in these capacities for obvious reasons one is that products are on our land, which is offered as a free service, so should be monitored.

In Taylor's case the owner was a player no longer involved in SL so could not be contacted thus was not allowed in store. Whenever I find an object that does not follow a rule it is removed with rez cost returned through the proper removal procedure.

Anytime a person has a question, comment, disagreement about a procedure in a Linden store I surely welcome an IM or email.

-Char Linden-
[email]Char@lindenlab.com[/email]

Hiyas All in all I would have to agree with Catherine here.

I would like to take this one step further and say that I think its ok for others to sell my items but for no more than what I charged originaly. Perhaps they could get a commission for selling those items. I am not sure that can even be done but I would not like to see all of my items for sale in a shop for far less than I am charging.

I would like to see them resold as apposed to being deleted forever.

Cat Cotton

Mis, I know what the deal is here - I was just responding to the idea of asking permission from the creator even if there is a one copy sold as an original (what we all seem to agree is not theif but ok). I am no thief and I have no intentions of becomming one. Just saying as an honest businesswoman I am not going to ask permission to sell my used items. That is too much of a hassel. Usually I am online hours most of you sleep and that means I would have to wait - in best cases 1 whole day for a reply.... ewwwwwwwwww I am born way too impatient for that- my soulution would be just stop shopping or my inventory would fill up too fast and we all know how long that takes to load..

I sell things in boxes as well and I am concerend too that ppl can take out as many copies a they like. I am hoping for a solution to this bug - YESTERDAY!

- have fun all -
:.:.:Matina:.:.:

Regardless of the specifics of this case, I'm not quite so sure that it is "intuitive" that used objects can be resold. If the programming mechanisms of SL make this possible (which they obviously do) then maybe there should also be the equivalent of a software license for objects (at the sellers option). Suppose there is a bug in an objects script and the author would like to track down all copies and fix it. that would be impossible if objects can be endlessly passed on.

I haven't played with this feature much so maybe I'm speaking out of ignorance, but wouldn't it be useful to have both resellable and non-resellable objects, and in any event, the program should enforce the rules, not people (who have better things to do).