So, I'm being all nostalgic and reading through the SL History Wiki when...

I come across the following in the 'Timeline' section under the 'Development' subheading:

"Some early experiments are said to have been: - Simple creation of cubes on a flat terrain

- Sophisticated water simulation, where you dropped an object on water and waves spread across sims. This particular effect was dropped since communicating information about water ripples took too much bandwidth."


I would LOVE to see a video of the water ripple effect! It sounds very cool. Can you imagine? We could skip rocks, dunk each other, drop anchors, etc. and have them actually effect the water.

Yeah; personally I'd like to see some form of this feature brought back; doesnt need to be cross-sim, hell, it could be purely clientside.

-Adam

I believe that was real physics simulation, not just an effect. I think the very first experimental versions of SL used to be built on LL's own proprietary physics engine.

I've talked about this several times before. I think this statement is bullshit:




And you can quote me on that, too.

A wave generation algorithm does not take a huge amount of bandwidth if done properly. Since all you need is a starting point and an algorithm, realistic water can be done mostly client-side with only the need to send the algo and the current timeframe.

A good example of this is Torque's waterblocks. Waterblocks could easily be their own prim class.

A good visual example. You can see why I'm an early adopter of the TSE.

I say "waterblocks" because I feel obsessing over world water is not a good idea. It would leave out those of us wishing to create raised lakes, dams, and other more advanced effects.

Wave propagation cross-sim should be within the boundaries of an object, not between every sim on the grid. That would axe the bandwidth problem.

Anyway, I've been wanting this (back?) a while myself.

Here is the interview with Philip Linden where my vague memories come from... the notecard says 2003-08-14 04:17:04.
I don't know if this is up on the history wiki or not. Since it predates Oz's birth, it's probably not up yet. I'll add it later.

Darwin Appleby shouts: Ok, our next guest tonight is the creator of SL itself
James Miller: oo, I wonder who that is?
Darwin Appleby shouts: Everyone please give a warm welcome to Phillip Linden!
Cori Sunshine: wooohooo
Darwin Appleby shouts: Hi Phil, great to have you on the show
Philip Linden: Thanks... so nice to invite me...
Darwin Appleby shouts: So you are the creator of SL
Philip Linden: what with all the lag!
Lordfly Digeridoo shouts: don't forget to shout!
Philip Linden shouts: Right
Philip Linden shouts: Thanks for inviting me!
Philip Linden shouts: Does any one have any extra lag for me
Ezhar Fairlight: i can spare some i think
Cori Sunshine: no lag here
Philip Linden shouts: Indeed
Washu Zebrastripe: lol
You shout: Try playing this from across the atlantic!
Joseph Ramos: i have loads of it here, this message was written when you were asking for lag
Joseph Ramos: hey i do
Philip Linden shouts: Well I'm in Boston
Darwin Appleby shouts: Well I'm curious as to where you got inspiration for SL
Philip Linden shouts: Ahh...
Philip Linden shouts: Inspiration.
Darwin Appleby shouts: Where did someting like this hit you?
Philip Linden shouts: I'd like to say in the shower
Philip Linden shouts: Or maybe reading Snowcrash
Philip Linden shouts: But the truth is...
Darwin Appleby shouts: Heh, showering would be an interesting place for this to hit you...
Philip Linden shouts: I've been into doing this sort of thing for a very long time
Philip Linden shouts: When I saw the internet,
Joseph Ramos: Regarding to technical stuff, was it hard to write this game .question.
Philip Linden shouts: I really wanted it to be this sort of thing
You have offered to exchange calling cards with Joseph Ramos.
Philip Linden shouts: Something that connected us in new ways...
Darwin Appleby shouts: Joseph, no audience quesions plz
Philip Linden shouts: Not just a big library
James Miller: scuze him, he's new
Joseph Ramos: sorry didnt knew in new
Philip Linden shouts: I didn't try and really do it, though,
Darwin Appleby: Np
Philip Linden shouts: Until I felt that latency would be low enough
Philip Linden shouts: Clearly we are still bleeding edge,
Philip Linden shouts: But we've come a long way.
Darwin Appleby shouts: That's definetly a good way to look at it though, from a revolutionaries perspective
Darwin Appleby shouts: I understand you were the head of technologies at Real Networks
Philip Linden: Yep... but I wasn't responsible for the RealOne player
Darwin Appleby shouts: Haha good
Ezhar Fairlight: good!
Philip Linden shouts: : Yep... but I wasn't responsible for the RealOne player
James Miller shouts: Thank god
Alek Wu: lol
Philip Linden shouts: I was the CTO
Philip Linden shouts: And I developed RealVideo
Huns Valen shouts: yay for that
Darwin Appleby shouts: Wow, you were pretty high up there
Philip Linden shouts: I worked before that on video compression.
Philip Linden shouts: Which in 1995 was really fun.
Darwin Appleby shouts: This games infastructure is based on the way RealVideo compressed video, is that correct?
Philip Linden shouts: Well sort of...
Philip Linden shouts: Things like the land and the images are compressed
Philip Linden shouts: using stuff that was worked on at that time by folks like Real
Philip Linden shouts: We've had to invent some other stuff as well along the way
Taylor Thompson shouts: sharkrkk
Philip Linden shouts: Like very heavily compressed geometry
Philip Linden shouts: For objects
Philip Linden shouts: But there are some similar technologies, yes.
Darwin Appleby shouts: Now has the technology from SL affected any other games that you know of?
Philip Linden shouts: Hmmm.... what a great Question.
Philip Linden shouts: Well I'd say that its nice to be right!
Philip Linden shouts: We pioneered the idea that the right sort of environment
Philip Linden shouts: in which everything was built by you guys
Philip Linden shouts: Could actually be fun
Philip Linden shouts: Let me tell you
Philip Linden shouts: Convincing people of that 2 yrs ago was hard work
Philip Linden shouts: But today I get calls from everyone in the business...
Philip Linden shouts: Now everyone suddenly gets it.
Philip Linden shouts: I guess thats the fun of being a revolutionary.
Philip Linden shouts: There are lots of little things I have seen a other games
Philip Linden shouts: That we have done.
Philip Linden shouts: Our AV customization
Philip Linden shouts: I getting widely copied.
Darwin Appleby shouts: Yes, at first that would just seem like a 3d Modeler online, but with an interface like this it's hard to imagine what ISNT fun about SL
Philip Linden shouts: For example.
James Miller: The Sims 2 is a knockoff of SL's avatar customization!
Philip Linden shouts: Yes thanks!
Alek Wu shouts: we lub Philip!
James Miller: Well, I like him...
Darwin Appleby shouts: So how did you first imagine this?
Philip Linden shouts: Ohh... well picture this.
Darwin Appleby shouts: When you had the idea, what did it look like to you, and how was it diffrent form what we have
Philip Linden shouts: I used to dream
Philip Linden shouts: Of like a big empty space
Philip Linden shouts: Where I would stand
Philip Linden shouts: And take big pieces of walls
Philip Linden shouts: Out of a toolkit...
Philip Linden shouts: And drag them around myself.
Philip Linden shouts: That idea,
Philip Linden shouts: Of being a creator in a new world.
Philip Linden shouts: Was what I thought a lot about.
Philip Linden shouts: How to do it...
Darwin Appleby shouts: That's incredible
Philip Linden shouts: With the parts I had... PCs, the net.
Darwin Appleby shouts: So you emphisize heavily the part about being a creator in a new wold
Philip Linden shouts: Yes.
Darwin Appleby shouts: Is this the main draw to SL for you?
Philip Linden shouts: It seemed to me that what would be interesting...
Philip Linden shouts: Was the idea
Philip Linden shouts: That you wouldn't just 'be there'
Philip Linden shouts: But would actually be a part of creating the world around you.
Philip Linden shouts: I think that the only defensively 'real' world
Philip Linden shouts: Is one which reflects our own passions, designs.
Philip Linden shouts: I don't think that just means building stuff...
Philip Linden shouts: But also building society, governance, meaning.
Philip Linden shouts: So beyond the 3dmodeling.
Philip Linden shouts: Into deeper forms of creation.
Philip Linden shouts: And I also think/hope...
Philip Linden shouts: That somehow SL can make us a bit better than we are...
Philip Linden shouts: Teach us things about ourselves.
Philip Linden shouts: That we wouldn't otherwise learn.
Darwin Appleby shouts: That's great
Darwin Appleby shouts: So it must have been a little dishearting when a group like the WW2OLers came into SL
Philip Linden shouts: No I don't really think so.
Darwin Appleby shouts: Or a person like... oh... I don't know... EZ Money popped up
James Miller: lol
Philip Linden shouts: Conflict is a part of narrative... a part of all lives.
Philip Linden shouts: When I see a place... like Tunetown for example.
Darwin Appleby shouts: So you expected something like this to happen really?
Philip Linden shouts: Where there is no conflict.
Philip Linden shouts: In a sense there is also no life.
Darwin Appleby shouts: Ah yes, the mighty flop
Philip Linden shouts: (although I think Toontown is very cool)
Ezhar Fairlight: there was verbal conflict in toontown
Darwin Appleby shouts: And do you believe (among other things) that this is why Toontown was not successful?
Philip Linden shouts: Well...
Philip Linden shouts: I don't think that makes it unsuccessful necessarily
Philip Linden shouts: Only a lot less real.
Darwin Appleby shouts: Ah I see
Philip Linden shouts: I am interested in what Jaron Lanier calls 'the reality conversation'
Philip Linden shouts: And that is what we are starting here.
Darwin Appleby shouts: So when you first started coding SL, and getting your ideas on paper, then what did you imagine SL to be?
Philip Linden shouts: Hmm....
Philip Linden shouts: Well the first thing I/we worked on
Philip Linden shouts: Was the server model...
Philip Linden shouts: The idea that the 'world' was on all these servers...
Philip Linden shouts: And that you were a sort of 'agent' within it.
Philip Linden shouts: When you connected.
Philip Linden shouts: That was the first work we did...
Philip Linden shouts: Oh and a really cool first experiment was water...
Darwin Appleby shouts: I bet
Philip Linden shouts: let me tell you about that...
Darwin Appleby shouts: Please do
Philip Linden shouts: A bit like genesis really.
Philip Linden shouts: The first thing we did was make the servers simulate real water.
Darwin Appleby shouts: So you had a "Waterworld"
Philip Linden shouts: With waves and reflection and you could throw things in it.
Philip Linden shouts: And watch the waves go across the sims.
Philip Linden shouts: Yes it was Waterworld.
Philip Linden shouts: We figured it we could xmit all that moving water.
Philip Linden shouts: We could do anything
Philip Linden shouts: And so that was the start of it.
Darwin Appleby shouts: So was the water then more complex then it is now?
Philip Linden shouts: Much!
Darwin Appleby shouts: You had to compress it basicly
Philip Linden shouts: It was a simulation, like our wind and clouds today.
Darwin Appleby shouts: I see
Philip Linden shouts: We had to compress and send it constantly.
Philip Linden shouts: But we took it out, because although it was pretty.
Philip Linden shouts: It was like 80Kbps... just for the water.
Philip Linden shouts: So not that pretty!
Darwin Appleby shouts: Yeah not technicly
Darwin Appleby shouts: So tell me about your first terrain
Darwin Appleby shouts: What was that like?
Philip Linden shouts: Hmmm...
Philip Linden shouts: Well let me remember
Philip Linden shouts: We had these cool trees...
Philip Linden shouts: just simple billboards, but they burned!
Philip Linden shouts: You could shoot them and start them on fire.
James Miller: lol
Philip Linden shouts: And the fire would spread to other trees.
Philip Linden shouts: It was amusing.
Darwin Appleby shouts: This was also more complex thea now then
Darwin Appleby shouts: than*
Philip Linden shouts: Well now they are a LOT more visually complex.
Philip Linden shouts: And of course blow in the wind.
Darwin Appleby shouts: Right
Philip Linden shouts: So there was a time...
Philip Linden shouts: Many board meetings ago.
Philip Linden shouts: When we didn't know exactly what we wanted SL to be like...
Philip Linden shouts: And on a lark...
Philip Linden shouts: I asked the guys in the office to just build crazy stuff
Philip Linden shouts: while we met in the meeting.
Darwin Appleby shouts: So THAT'S where Zoe came from
Philip Linden shouts: We were watching them on a big monitor...
Philip Linden shouts: Building little snowmen and houses and stuff.
Darwin Appleby shouts: Haha
Darwin Appleby shouts: Come a long way since that
Philip Linden shouts: And after a bit of watching them all working together in real time.
Starr Fairlight shouts: Mr. Linden, may I please ask a question?
Philip Linden shouts: We realized WOW that was what was cool about SL
Philip Linden shouts: That idea of creating together.
Darwin Appleby shouts: So zooming to today
Darwin Appleby shouts: WHat do you think about the current outrages with taxes?
Philip Linden shouts: Well I loved the tea party.
Philip Linden shouts: I'm in boston so I showed those boxes to folks here.
Philip Linden shouts: Great s
Darwin Appleby shouts: Hehe
Philip Linden shouts: It was great
Philip Linden shouts: But seriously
Darwin Appleby shouts: I bet
Philip Linden shouts: Taxes and how to change them are highest priority.
Philip Linden shouts: We need to change the rates, etc, as more folks come in.
Philip Linden shouts: But remember that we have to keep enough capacity to go around.
Philip Linden shouts: But having said that.
Philip Linden shouts: The rates are very high to incent lots of 'evolution' in the content
Philip Linden shouts: And as the world gets bigger we won't need as much pressure there.
Philip Linden shouts: Kind of a trade off between buying and renting, in a way.
Philip Linden shouts: Right now its like rent-world!
Darwin Appleby shouts: A great foundation for something like this
Darwin Appleby: Just not one that grows with the population
Darwin Appleby shouts: Now backtracking for a second, the first sim to go online was Zoe, correct?
Philip Linden shouts: Man thats a good question.
Philip Linden shouts: I don't really remember.
Huns Valen shouts: sim01 = Da Boom
Philip Linden shouts: The area in the central lake... minna, zoe, natoma.
Philip Linden shouts: Those were the first areas, yes.
James Miller: da boom makes most sense, its the sidestreet closest to LL's offices
Darwin Appleby shouts: Well how about the building system, how was that at the time?
James Miller: actually, its De Boom on the map
Philip Linden shouts: Well actually its not changed much.
Philip Linden shouts: Thats probably the system that seems most right.
Philip Linden shouts: We've still got lots of work though!
Darwin Appleby shouts: Now someone in the audiance had a question
Darwin Appleby shouts: What was your question please
James Miller shouts: Question
You have offered to exchange calling cards with Philip Linden.
Darwin Appleby shouts: Ok never mind then :0
James Miller shouts: ...I have one
Darwin Appleby: Well if I could have one last question Phil, how big did you expect the world to be?
Darwin Appleby shouts: Well if I could have one last question Phil, how big did you expect the world to be?
Darwin Appleby shouts: Did you ever imagine it as big as this?
Darwin Appleby shouts: Or bigger maybe?
Philip Linden shouts: Well...
Philip Linden shouts: Like Han Solo said.
Philip Linden shouts: I can imagine an awful lot.
Philip Linden shouts: I think SL gets more and more interesting as it grows.
Philip Linden shouts: Now we are a village.
Philip Linden shouts: Imagine us as a small city.
James Miller shouts: Phil, come visit new york before you go home from boston
Philip Linden shouts: As we put servers in other parts of the world...
Philip Linden shouts: That will be incredibly cool.
Philip Linden shouts: Imagine waking into SL China, or something.
Darwin Appleby:
that Small shouts: where first ?
Philip Linden shouts: Walking I mean.
Joseph Ramos: That would be great, im currently in south america, my ping is not that bad, but sometimes its really unplayable hehe
Philip Linden shouts: Yep will help with that.
Darwin Appleby shouts: Well that was a great interview Phil, thank you very much for being here
Philip Linden shouts: Thank you very muhc for having me!!!
Philip Linden shouts: Its late in boston...
Cori Sunshine: great game Phil
Philip Linden shouts: And I have an early meeting.
James Miller: Late? Its only 11pm!
Darwin Appleby shouts: I bet, good luck over there
Philip Linden shouts: So gotta run.
Joseph Ramos: /lap
Darwin Appleby shouts: See you
Philip Linden shouts: Thank you all for making SL what it is.
James Miller shouts: goodnight Phil!
Darwin Appleby shouts: Ok guys, thank you all very much for being here tonight, next show will be on monday, good night everyone!
James Miller: oo, bye bye set
Cori Sunshine: i want the popcorn *stomps feet

Cutting right to the chase:


There's a difference between trying to propagate waves across every sim on the grid, and doing so in a small-scale, reproducable instance.

Remind me to make a "simple" example with LSL. I have something like this with a particle cape, but that was more an experiment than a good example.

But... but... then I couldn't carry out my evil plans of crashing a meteor onto the grid!
No giant tsunamis to wipe out all the coastal cities!?
Bah, 80kpbs is pennies. This is 2005. Bring back the water

before i sold it, Krittannia had reactive water across the entire surface of the sim. so nyah.

Your water was awsome Kris

I want pictures of the water tooo!

I'm sorry I missed this! Do you have any pictures?

I was a volume detect cube that puffed particles and played a sound. Not like waves spreading across the surface of the whole sim.

You were?!

It was still cool, better than the world water thats everywhere thats boring.