Why the Disdain for Openly Capitalistic Motives in SL?

I'll be frank with everyone: I'm in SL to make money. United States Dollars. I employ every capitalistic strategy I can think of to make a buck. My goal in SL can be summed up in two words: cash flow.

Now, that being said... I was lured to SL by LL which pitched SL as a wonderful place of opportunity and a great way to start one's own virtual business - for REAL cash.

Being a straight shooter, I've noticed that when I let people know about this aim, they express disdain. I totally do not understand this! Making cash is one of the ways SL is being pitched... how can you be angry for attracting people like me looking to make a buck if thats the way the "game" is being pitched by the founders?

Why does trying to make a buck make me a "bad person"?

Since I've been honest with the community, I'd appreciate some honest answers back.

Nothing wrong with making a buck, Jamie, or you trying every trick you can. The problem arises when the "government" (in this case, LL) gives the capitalists more consideration than they give to the commonweal.

The whole MJW debacle has most of us up in arms because it is a case of the government giving special consideration to a special interest group out of earshot and oversight from the rest of us. The fact that the MJW comprises mostly high-dollar "stakeholders" only compounds the problem.

The modern-day American layperson's understanding of the concept of capitalism is that it's a good thing. A god-given right of every man and corporation. You might be surprised to find that many nations, including the Founding Fathers of the United States, the very authors of our constitution, do not think capitalism is a good thing for the commonweal.

Go watch the excellent Canadian documentary called "The Corporation" for a good education into the history of how unchecked capitalism can screw up a country and its commonweal. Go read up on Jefferson and his essays against capitalism and against the church. (There's another laugh for you, the common conception these days that the U.S. was somehow founded as a "Christian Nation." Jefferson is turning over in his grave.)

wot Fushichou said, exactly.

Plus, in past comments, you've shown your share of disdain for those that aren't here to make a buck...

COMPLETELY UNTRUE.

If capitalism is about money for you, maybe you should re-think about playing this game.

Capitalism isn't about money. It's about winning only the game never ends.

It's about sucking up as much market share and resources as possible every year until the company folds or is annihilated.

What disdain ?

What? Capitalism is NOT about that. Thats greed.

Capitalism is about a better way of life.

I have no problem with your motive or methods, Jamie. As long as everyone is on a level playing field with respect to LL policy, interaction and treatment, everyone's wheeling and dealing is a joy to behold. More power to you if you can achieve your goals through scale advantages, personal seed capital, in-world relationships, location, smarts, etc.

I'm sure that you don't hold the consumers of your wares as irrelevant to your success.

Editorial Edit: I am also not concerned if you want to try for special treatment. Perfectly reasonable initiative. I just want to make sure that you get denied that special treatment.

well, actually I think it's pretty clear now that no special consideration was given.

Icon -- if I was an entrepreneur who aspires to run a successful and moral business but with no intentions or aspirations of being the next microsoft or taking over the world, doesn't that still make me a capitalist? People have weird generalizations about business -- maybe after reading to many stories about Bill Gates and Jack Welch. There are an awful lot of small businesses out there that make the world go round, run by decent people. Competing and striving to succeed does not make one an automatic ghengis khan.


anyway to answer -- jamie, SL is made up of thousands of people with different opinions, backgrounds, etc. You're going to get all sorts of reactions, some positive, some negative. Just expect it.

Disclosure: I am not in anyways, shape, or form associated with the MJW.

To me, its a gang of thugs run by a notorious leader.

I don't believe most people have a problem with capitalism. I believe most people have a problem with what happens to decency and honesty and fairness when some capitalists begin to place near-term profits over long-term benefits; when capitalists begin to exert undue influence over governing bodies that should represent everyone but start to represent the privileged.

I'm very much a capitalist. But I consider myself a "long-term capitalist". Too many seem to be "near-term capitalists" - trampling over everyone else to make a quick buck today while ruining everything for the future. I prefer Win-Win scenarios; too many are satisfied with Win-Lose. Even if I came out on top of a Win-Lose, I'd consider it a failure.

Jamie you made points I often wonder myself.

I'll tell you frankly that I didn't come to SL to make money. I have other goals, mostly which Im able to pursue.

I dont mind that your goal is to make money, but I resent it when I'm told, both in word and deed, that my reasons for being here are less valid, or less valuable because they are different.

While you individually may not have espoused these views, there is plenty of evidence in the discussion at hand, and in prior ones, that there is a vocal segment of the community pushing the refrain: "only worthwhile reason for being here is to make cash".

I also get tired of people talking about their stake in SL in terms of the money they put in ... when its patently clear to me and to other observers that its really about the money they are taking /out/ of SL.

Well when I advocate increasing the basic stipend so that casual users can enjoy SL more without having the need to get a job, I am told that SL is a platform and not a game, and that if people want to ply that have to get jobs, or pay even more money for cash of the GOM. I am also told that keeping the market value of the linden at 4.00 per thousand was a critical interest to the long term survival of SL, because if the Linden got less value nobody would compete.

In other words the position I have sen from the capitalists on the forum is that SL is aplce to make them rich, nothing LL does should interefere with that positions, and if you are a causal player not making money by creating content, you should "shut up, buck up, and get a job. Or go play another game because SL is clearly not for you, since it is a platform."

I think that in terms intolerance for other styles of play, the capitalists have it all over everyone else. But You should here the Hue and cry when the lindens decide compete with the capitalists for my Dollars. Read any post realting to GOM in the past week.

I've no problem with making money in SL, both the action and those who have it as a primary aim. I confess I find the mindset of the businessperson - one who is not making money by doing something and in order to support their family and selves, but holds making money alone as their sole aim - totally alien to me; money is just a useful symbol, and it is possible to amass more profit on paper than there is to be made. You cannot earn more than you can possible use; you can only aquire it.

Okay, economic screed over. All it really means is I have no problems with wanting to make money through SL; I have a problem with unprincipled distortion of the social and political landscape in order for someone to make that money. Provide a useful service and charge what the market will bear, and I have no beef with you. Pay your employees, if any, a fair and reasonable wage, and I have no issues. Delude yourself into believing the problems of others are less important than your own and thus, it is okay to act as one wishes so long as you get your share of the pie? Big damn problem.

Because, deep down, we all know this is a game... even if some people manage to make money at it. And at the core of every game is one simple truth that, when compromised, ruins the game for all involved:

We all have the same chance and we all play by the same rules.

If ever any aspect changes that makes the above statement untrue, the entire game begins the slow spiral to death.

Therefore, any effort to in any manner lend weight to any aspect of the game over another, be it land over prims or one type of creator over another is an erosion of the overall integrity of that statement. An erosion that we all understand on a visceral level must not happen.

I suspect one is not likely to be earning the highest possible return on one's investment of time, labor, energy, money. etc. by trying to run a business in SL instead of engaging in a money making activity in real life, one could thus find fault with schemes for money making in Sl because they are not likely to be maximizing the profits from one's invesment.