Something strange happened on the way to the forums

Blaze, sorry to pull a quote out of a thread, but I really disagree with you here. I don't think I'm being offensive by doing so, and neither were you. Disagreements happen, debate is fun.

You know, I've only been on the forums since the beginning of the year, and so missed some colorful characters of forum-past, but in the last few months, I think the forum has really disintegrated. The signal to noise ratio is simply horrible. The forums are actually becoming *boring* because intellectual discourse & argument (yes, disagreements) cannot go anywhere without complete derailment. (and like moths to flame, people allow and participate in the derailment).

This has been a fascinating insight into community and individual behavior.

Maybe i'll spend more time here again when this place feels healthy again. Healthy = disagreement without poison.

Sure is, and entertaining also!! c'mon someone fight over something, it keeps me up u know

*sniffles*

Knows the feeling hence why I havent been in, in a few weeks...

Shad

Forseti, did you have anything to say?

Any ideas? Insights?

Hmm....

Visitors to your art installation and their comments?

Any offers on your men's store?

*Something* to say? Anything???

Funny, I don't see any ideas or insights in your post, Prokofy.

And just to be clear, the above sentence is an insight.

What was the point of your post, Prokofy?

I totally agree, Prok!

Don't touch the girls when they're wet!

But you can still drop it when it's hot.

No, it's just a whine on his part, the usual whine about the "forums going to the dogs."

My ideas and insights are in the 2,000 plus posts I've already made on these forums, Ursula.

I've given Forseti some of his grandest artistic moments in this game. He's actually done some of his best work, we're told (haven't seen it but Hamlet has blogged it). If it hadn't been for my inspiration, he couldn't have made this art work.

So rather than just react to me and my posts, of which there are plenty to sift through to see ideas, insights, critiques, suggestions, proposals about the game, I'd like to hear what Forseti's ideas are.

that is a very funny post, prok. It is also a load of bullshit, but it's a fools errand trying to respond to your assertions and assumptions.

You are partially correct in one regard: I AM whining about the state of the forums. However, I also thought blaze's post was a common-enough misconception that it deserved a response.

I can't honestly examine the root cause of forum disfunction without verbally taking you to task, prokovy, whether you like it or not.

However, I am MOST impressed at your ability to hijack an entire online forum, and I'll let you plant your little flag on the forums and let it be.

Prokovy aside, I am happy to share a few views on "healthy, fun debate":

Healthy, fun debate does not require that you *like* your opponent, but it does require that both parties want to listen, want ideas challenged, and want the opportunity of potentially changing opinions and widening perspectives.

Healthy debate demands that you be willing to listen. Healthy, fun debate does not demand that its participants have all the facts, or even the right facts, nor does it demand empirical reasoning over anecdotal discovery... it simply requires a genuine interest in two-way discourse and a mutually-agreeable level of rationality.

Healthy debate allows for overheated emotion, but it asks for a certain self-awareness so that if you are insulting someone, you are cognizant of the fact that you are insulting someone. It requires a certain maturity in being able to step back to cool a situation, whether or not you decide to offer an apology. It also requires a certain level of restraint in how you address your "opponent".


Now, if you do not care to listen, if you cannot be challenged without taking it as a personal attack and responding with individual or group-based character assassination, if you have no desire to broaden your perspective, then you really have no debate, no discourse... you just have multiple windbags listening to themselves talk.


I find myself writing *this* windbag message because I find that interesting, fun debate is barely possible on these forums right now. And I'm not talking about the light, fun stuff, but the meaty issues -- I'm talking about real debate on the theory behind virtual economies and online communities and the practical design and implementation of those ideas within second life.


I'm not leaving the forums, just backing out of the rather disreputable state it finds itself in right now.

Well, Forseti you should, you have more important things to attend to

Anyways, while I agree the alien predators in the forums these days are a lot more overt, that doesn't mean they didn't exist before. Trust me, they did, you (and others) probably just didn't notice them because they were (and are still) camouflaged in the fabric of popular opinion.

Honestly, I personally look at Prokofy as a kind of karma that the forum community is getting. Sometimes I think it's a bit too much karma, but then I read over a few archived threads and think, no, it still deserves a little bit more.

Plus there was that whole Aimee Weber led lynch mob / Ardith led shunning. If that wasn't begging for more Prokofy Style Punishment, I don't know what is.

yes! indeed I do!



absolutely... these things probably ebb and flow I am sure, and all open forums have "noise" issues. At one level it is disappointing to see it happen here, at another level, from the 30,000 foot human psychology/sociology level, it is quite fascinating to watch (with thick gloves, protective glasses, and a 10 ft pole).



I would agree that it appears to have backfired lol. I think it fired Prok up to get even more engaged.