Second Life Forums Archive - Is gambling legal in SL?

Snowcrash Hoffman

Digital mind virus

Join date: 30 Jan 2005

Posts: 282

06-08-2005 18:14

I play a lot of poker and its fun. It just occured to me, is this legal in US? Even if the exchange is Lindens, it can be converted to RL money. I know online gambling sites are not legal and have to operate outside of US. I know the money that's involved is very very small, but still gambling is gambling

I am wondering what is the official word about this from Lindens?

Roberta Dalek

Probably trouble

Join date: 21 Oct 2004

Posts: 1,174

06-08-2005 19:11

It's an interesting question - this Wikipedia article has some information and links on the question.

"Online poker is legal and regulated in many countries including the United Kingdom and several nations in and around the Caribbean Sea.

While the United States Federal Appeals Courts has ruled that the Federal Wire Act prohibits electronic transmission of information for sports betting across state lines, there is no law prohibiting gambling of any other kind [1] (http://www.playwinningpoker.com/guide6.html).

However, some states have specific laws against online gambling of any kind. Also, owning an online gaming operation without proper licensing would be illegal, and no states are currently granting online poker licenses."

The normal argument when this issue is raised seems to be that as linden $ aren't real money it's not real gambling.

However as they are convertible (or are they?) into US$ are they like chips?

One thing to be aware of is that SL gambling is unregulated. You have no idea what the odds are in many cases - and no way at all of seeing if the published odds are the correct ones.

_____________________

See my stuff on SL Boutique!

Lita Kothari

Cynically Skeptical

Join date: 12 Nov 2003

Posts: 122

06-09-2005 02:18

It's legal because the terms of service clearly state that L$ have no RL value. That is why you have to "trade" your in world currency for real currency on third-party sites.

Cindy Claveau

Gignowanasanafonicon

Join date: 16 May 2005

Posts: 2,008

06-09-2005 06:18

From: Snowcrash Hoffman

I play a lot of poker and its fun. It just occured to me, is this legal in US? Even if the exchange is Lindens, it can be converted to RL money. I know online gambling sites are not legal and have to operate outside of US. I know the money that's involved is very very small, but still gambling is gambling

I am wondering what is the official word about this from Lindens?

As has been stated, the extremely low value of $Lindens changes the equation. Most US gambling laws were established to limit the impact of organized crime. Raffles, bingo and other milder forms of gambling even take place in churches in states that have not legalized gambling. No big deal.

That said, gambling laws in the US are determined on a state-by-state basis. Today, Native Reservations have built casinos in most states as a source of income so you can play cards, slots, roulette, etc., all you want on their land.

And of course Nevada has legalized gambling. And prostitution.

Cindy

_____________________

Red Mars

What?

Join date: 5 Feb 2004

Posts: 469

06-09-2005 08:06

In SL you aren't gambling for money, it's play-gambling for game money. It's not real money.

True, we can buy and sell it for real money, but you can buy and sell pez dispensors too. There is no law against gambling with pez dispensors. And pez dispensors are a lot more 'real' than $L.

_____________________

Alan Palmerstone

Payment Info Used

Join date: 4 Jun 2004

Posts: 659

06-09-2005 13:44

From: Red Mars

In SL you aren't gambling for money, it's play-gambling for game money. It's not real money.

True, we can buy and sell it for real money, but you can buy and sell pez dispensors too. There is no law against gambling with pez dispensors. And pez dispensors are a lot more 'real' than $L.

Imagine your surreal it would look for the guys on the World Poker Championship on TV to be sitting behind a huge stack of Pez dispensers!

Yes, I know they gamble in casino's where it is legal, but I can't get that image of the big guy in the sunglasses and cowboy hat going all in by pushing forward a pile of Pez dispensers!!!

_____________________

Visit Parrot Island - relax on the beach, snuggle at the waterfall, ride the jetskis, make a movie and buy a pool!

Foulcault Mechanique

Father Cheesemonkey

Join date: 28 Mar 2005

Posts: 557

06-09-2005 13:49

Also LL is not offering you real money. A third party is offering you real money like IGE or GOM. LL makes no money off the gambling.

_____________________

Foulcault
"Keep telling yourself that and someday you just might believe it."

"Every Technomage knows the 14 words that will make someone fall in love with you forever, but she only needed one.
"Hello""
Galen from Babylon 5 Crusade

From: Jeska Linden

I'm moving this over to Off-Topic for further Pez ruminations.

Schwanson Schlegel

SL's Tokin' Villain

Join date: 15 Nov 2003

Posts: 2,721

06-09-2005 13:57

From: Snowcrash Hoffman

Is gambling legal in SL?

I'll bet you $1000L it is.

_____________________

Is gambling legal in SL?
Snowcrash Hoffman Digital mind virus Join date: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 282	06-08-2005 18:14 I play a lot of poker and its fun. It just occured to me, is this legal in US? Even if the exchange is Lindens, it can be converted to RL money. I know online gambling sites are not legal and have to operate outside of US. I know the money that's involved is very very small, but still gambling is gambling I am wondering what is the official word about this from Lindens?
Roberta Dalek Probably trouble Join date: 21 Oct 2004 Posts: 1,174	06-08-2005 19:11 It's an interesting question - this Wikipedia article has some information and links on the question. "Online poker is legal and regulated in many countries including the United Kingdom and several nations in and around the Caribbean Sea. While the United States Federal Appeals Courts has ruled that the Federal Wire Act prohibits electronic transmission of information for sports betting across state lines, there is no law prohibiting gambling of any other kind [1] (http://www.playwinningpoker.com/guide6.html). However, some states have specific laws against online gambling of any kind. Also, owning an online gaming operation without proper licensing would be illegal, and no states are currently granting online poker licenses." The normal argument when this issue is raised seems to be that as linden $ aren't real money it's not real gambling. However as they are convertible (or are they?) into US$ are they like chips? One thing to be aware of is that SL gambling is unregulated. You have no idea what the odds are in many cases - and no way at all of seeing if the published odds are the correct ones. _____________________ See my stuff on SL Boutique!
Lita Kothari Cynically Skeptical Join date: 12 Nov 2003 Posts: 122	06-09-2005 02:18 It's legal because the terms of service clearly state that L$ have no RL value. That is why you have to "trade" your in world currency for real currency on third-party sites.
Cindy Claveau Gignowanasanafonicon Join date: 16 May 2005 Posts: 2,008	06-09-2005 06:18 From: Snowcrash Hoffman I play a lot of poker and its fun. It just occured to me, is this legal in US? Even if the exchange is Lindens, it can be converted to RL money. I know online gambling sites are not legal and have to operate outside of US. I know the money that's involved is very very small, but still gambling is gambling I am wondering what is the official word about this from Lindens? As has been stated, the extremely low value of $Lindens changes the equation. Most US gambling laws were established to limit the impact of organized crime. Raffles, bingo and other milder forms of gambling even take place in churches in states that have not legalized gambling. No big deal. That said, gambling laws in the US are determined on a state-by-state basis. Today, Native Reservations have built casinos in most states as a source of income so you can play cards, slots, roulette, etc., all you want on their land. And of course Nevada has legalized gambling. And prostitution. Cindy _____________________
Red Mars What? Join date: 5 Feb 2004 Posts: 469	06-09-2005 08:06 In SL you aren't gambling for money, it's play-gambling for game money. It's not real money. True, we can buy and sell it for real money, but you can buy and sell pez dispensors too. There is no law against gambling with pez dispensors. And pez dispensors are a lot more 'real' than $L. _____________________
Alan Palmerstone Payment Info Used Join date: 4 Jun 2004 Posts: 659	06-09-2005 13:44 From: Red Mars In SL you aren't gambling for money, it's play-gambling for game money. It's not real money. True, we can buy and sell it for real money, but you can buy and sell pez dispensors too. There is no law against gambling with pez dispensors. And pez dispensors are a lot more 'real' than $L. Imagine your surreal it would look for the guys on the World Poker Championship on TV to be sitting behind a huge stack of Pez dispensers! Yes, I know they gamble in casino's where it is legal, but I can't get that image of the big guy in the sunglasses and cowboy hat going all in by pushing forward a pile of Pez dispensers!!! _____________________ Visit Parrot Island - relax on the beach, snuggle at the waterfall, ride the jetskis, make a movie and buy a pool!
Foulcault Mechanique Father Cheesemonkey Join date: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 557	06-09-2005 13:49 Also LL is not offering you real money. A third party is offering you real money like IGE or GOM. LL makes no money off the gambling. _____________________ Foulcault "Keep telling yourself that and someday you just might believe it." "Every Technomage knows the 14 words that will make someone fall in love with you forever, but she only needed one. "Hello"" Galen from Babylon 5 Crusade From: Jeska Linden I'm moving this over to Off-Topic for further Pez ruminations.
Schwanson Schlegel SL's Tokin' Villain Join date: 15 Nov 2003 Posts: 2,721	06-09-2005 13:57 From: Snowcrash Hoffman Is gambling legal in SL? I'll bet you $1000L it is. _____________________

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Is gambling legal in SL?