Not complaining, just wondering why?

So I've been wondering why in most cases people make certain items un-able to be re-sold if we don't like them?

For example, I can't remember who and wouldn't say if I did, but certain people that I buy hair from, if later I decide I don't like it or don't use it enough why couldn't I sell it or even give it to one of my friends? I mean in RL people re-sell or give away items they don't need anymore all the time. I've found some clothing the same way, permissions are set so that you can't even buy it to give as a gift to someone.

I'm just wondering if there is a logical reason why people who sell these items don't want them re-sold or given away (other than if the person on the recieving side of this re-sell makes money instead of the creator or if it's given away someone gets the item for free instead of having to buy it but the origional purchase was made and there is still only one of that item out there anyway so that doesn't make much sense either)

My inventory (like my basement) is filled with items I don't want anymore but can't give away or re-sell. My basement is an easy fix...I'm having a garage sale. Why can't I have a SL garage sale?

Just wondering!

(I really don't mean this to become a bitch thread or a flaming thread, I just want to know the logical reason why)

Most will either sell as copy OR transfer. If they are copy AND transfer, you could start up your own little business selling that object

The logical reason why is the inflexibility of the permissions system. If you want to give someone the flexibilty and protection of not only having one copy of something, for the convenience of keeping it with more than one outfit (or in the case of vehicles, not having the fear of losing it to a bug), then your only option is to make it no transfer. The downside to this is that there is no way of course to then transfer it if you no longer want it.

Without a complete revamp of permissions that would include such things as pointers to items (so that if you put the same hair in 5 different outfit folders, they all point to the same item, not to 5 different copies), along with the ability to transfer an item without the ability to retain copies of it, that would certainly help.

But can't you set it as no copy which would allow for transfer or re-selling?

This works for some things, not for others. For instance, my vehicles are all copy, no transfer becasue SL has a bad habit of eating vehicles. The customer deserves to fly more than two or three times, so, they get an infinite number of copies to use. If I set it up transfer and copy, some yutz out there somewhere would buy a copy, and give 'em out to everyone he meets. Bye-bye business.

For other things, it depends. Clothing is an interesting subject for this. I know clothiers have an interesting problem to face: Do they let cusomers have copy perms and use the item in several outfits, or give them transfer so they can give them as gifts or resell. (I do belive a few offer one of each)

There's been many a rumbling about improving the system so that a proper balance between copiability and transferrability can be struck. It's been back-burnered, as I understand it, in favor or fising the scaling problems they're having and getting Havock 2 into the works.

Many people have requested clothing, jewlery, and hair items to be copiable so that they can keep an item in multiple folders.. and thus drag & drop whole outfits on. That means it has to be no transfer.

There is another issue for many content creators. Since an item doesn't lose it's value by getting wear and tear, no one wants to see their items resold at a price higher than what they sold it for originally, creating competition for themselves and allowing someone else to profit off their hard work. We've seen this unfortunately in the reselling of items that were given away for free.

If the permission system allowed more flexibility, then I think you would see more options.

As for gifts, online sites like SL Boutique arrange for gifts of no transfer items. Our customers can always contact Ferran or myself for a gift delivery.

I'd rather have the ability to copy it, though.

Copying lets me:

Tinker with it (provided its modable) and not risk screwing it up

Have multiple copies in use (For, say, furniture or scripted gadgets)

Have almost no risk of loosing the object

Keep copies of it in different spots in my inventory... For example, my topknot and bangs I have in all my elfin avatar folders, because I wear them with every elfin avatar I have.

If the item is modable again, I can have not only multiple copies, but multiple different versions at the same time

If you shop around, you can choose stoes that make transfer items. Most of them wil label it so. If there's something you want that's copy no transfer, you could try IM'ing the creator and asking for a transfer copy.

Another point I don't think is touched on here is that the seller may not want it that way. They would rather your friends come buy off them instead of the buyer selling it or giving it away. More ph4t L3wtz that way.

I get all of the above except for this. That is just plain greedy and selfish. I mean when I know a friends b-day is coming up I'd prefer to go buy a nice outfit for them, buy a nice gift box, put the outfit in the gift box and then give it to them not give them money and say "go buy an outfit" And I'd like to give it to them personally.

Thank you for answering though...it all boils down to imperfections in the permissions system.

one more question...
What does this mean????

I'm guessing phat lewtz - so fat loots - so more money?

I make almost all of my items no transfer so people can have copies, especially for jewelry. When people purchase items as gifts I grop them on the giftee. If the buyer want to give the gift themself, then I work out something with them. Usually I made version that is no copy/trans for them to give, and then I give the giftee a copy no transfer version. Most content providers will work with you, just IM them.

One reason is also due to how certain scripts work. For example, we provide upgrader objects to upgrade a person's pet dog that they bought from us. For the upgrader to work, certain permissions must exist for the items that get copied over (from the upgrader to the dog), and the dog needs to have certain permissions set to accept the incoming upgrades.

What it boils down to is that we are able to keep transfer on, which forces us to disable copy permissions. It's not greed. It's reality. If I sold something I've worked hard on and the buyer was able to make infinite copies and give them away for free, why would I even have a business? This keeps developers making new things. It's incentive. Otherwise, why bother?

I have one additional motivation for selling copy/no-transfer that wasn't mentioned. If a customer IMs me and says "I lost the item" or "I accidentally un-linked it and screwed it up", etc. I feel no hesitation to simply pass them another fresh copy. This would not be the case if I allowed transfer because it would open the door for people using my good customer service to get freebies for their friends.

As for gifting, most designers are happy to pass a gift item along to the recipient. Simply IM them.

OH, and ph4t L3wtz is elite speak for "fat loot" or "lots of money"

Perhaps I misunderstand your point...

I disagree. Let's say that I spend 4 hours making a top that sells for $L 200, or about USD $0.20. The only way I make back anything for my time is through multiple sales of that item. And rarely do I put out anything that is that simple or quick. And then there are texture uploads, software costs, etc.

If I didn't enjoy doing it... it wouldn't be worth it from an $L perspective without some ability to control what happens to the finished product.

Ya this is another point. Before anybody calls a content creator "greedy" they should keep in mind that the hours/skillset used to create things in SL pay a FRACTION of what the same effort and skill would pay in the real world. Call us SUCKERS if you like, but greedy? If money is our motivation there are much easier ways to make it.

Yup. I handle gift requests for my bots all the time. Usually someone buys one and in chatting, asks if they can buy one for their girlfriend or whatever. I'm always happy to oblige and take care of the inventory transfer in a few seconds.

Just ask.

Ditto.

I'll send anyone a Templar Sei... er, no... Jillicopter as a gift from the purchaser. I don't even charge for it. Heck, I even wrote a script to deliver it at a predetermined time for those who want it sent to coincide with an event.

That type of logic can be interpreted both ways. If one is creating content, and money isn't the motivation, then one could also reason that they can't use money lost/"self-competition" as a reason to make their stuff no-transfer. The logic here being if they're not doing it for the money, then money being lost wouldn't matter. This doesn't necessary mean the creator is greedy, but it also means they can't claim to be wholly altrustic in their deeds.

Personally, I make my stuff either no-copy or no-transfer, depending on the circumstances. In either case, I know that I control the supply of the objects in-world, so indirectly I can also control the degree of 'self-competition' (aka my stuff being resold). If the item is a low-volume, high-cost item, even a single resale could affect my pocket, so I make them no-transfer. If it is a cheaper item that have many copies sold, then it'll only impact me if they are resold in mass quantity, so I make them no-copy. However, I make those decisions on a per-item basis. There is no cut-and-dried coin-toss I do to determine how to set my items.


- Newfie

I have another idea. Those who think creators are selfish or greedy can try to create their own content first and see how 'easy' it is. And I'm not talking about a 2-minute Tshirt with jaggy edges, or a fast paint job on a template where the seams don't even match.

Look closely at the better stuff in SL and note the complex textures, light/shadow, seam matching and all the other detail that goes into them. Then tell me how much you'd like to make per hour for coming up with that stuff.

It's not greed. It's fair business practice.

I think you may be taking an all-or-nothing interpretation of this. We wanna get paid, we don't want to get ripped off, and for any given unit of effort in SL we want to maximize our profit. All I am saying is that if a designer crosses the line into greed-land, they will likely lose interest in SL and start taking RL jobs. The earning potential is simply better outside of SL.

I would say yep, I am taking an all-or-nothing interpretation of it. Then again, that would be in response to the statement that 'all creators are/aren't greedy', which is also an all-or-nothing statement.

In reality, when it comes to creators in SL there is a wide spectrum of motivations and personalities, the all-or-nothing being the rare extremes. There are indeed a few creators I think are being overly greedy in their deeds, but also some that are philanthropic in their generosity, with most creators somewhere in-between. On that same line there's also a spectrum of 'consumers' - those who do not create, but buy/use the creations. Some will think creators are being selfish, others will think they do not get rewarded enough, with many somewhere in-between.

There will never be a set of built-in permissions in SL - or anywhere, for that matter - that will both keep all creators and all consumers happy at all times. However, the goal is to find a happy medium that balances the needs of both the creator and the rights of the consumer. While it's not reasonable for a consumer to have an attitude of "I have money, do my bidding", it's equally unreasonable for a creator to think "I am a creator and I have worked hard, throw money at me you uncreative peasants."

Those two statements only work in the all-or-nothing realm. The reality is, there's only a few people that exist at those extreme ends, the rest of us - creators and consumers alike - have to navigate a less black-and-white landscape.


- Newfie

I think when someone buys something from me and there's a drop-down blue box saying Avatar X bought Y it's like a pat on the back or a word of encouragement. I thrive on silly things like that. My things are sold transfer, but if they are resold I don't get a pat on the back.

I do not mean in any way to diminish the amount of work that goes into the content created. I cannont begin to imagine how much time is spent creating these outfits. And if it were something that I wanted for myself and then also wanted to give a friend as a gift I would gladly pay for it twice. Anytime I give a gift I put it in a nice gift box along with a landmark to the store I bought it from in case they want to check out whatever else the creator makes. I just don't want to make my friends spend their own money on a gift when I could just give it to them in a nice special personal way that says on the screen "musicteacher Rampal has offered you inventory" Rather than it coming from some random person.

The way this was stated it made it sound like creators wanted people to buy the item and then make their friend come buy it when all the origional person wanted was to give it as a gift. In RL manufacturors of items would prefer people buy everything directly from them as well, however reality is people have garage sales all the time. Then again in RL there is no way of prohibiting resale of items. I guess that is the advantage to SL vs. RL, one can make more profit off one item than they would in RL because in RL people can give things away and re-sell them.

I have in the past had to IM the creator and they give me a transferable version so that I can give it. I appreciate the willingness of the creators to pass items along, however I don't always plan that far in advance and cannot always find the creator online at the time of purchase or need. Also not every creator is good about posting what the permissions are and then I end up buying something I didn't want and can't get rid of it because I can't give it as a gift like I had planned. Of course because it's no transfer I can't give it back to the creator so they usually won't give me my money back. Most of the time they will give me the transferable version without asking me to pay again. But several times they have refused to give me the transferable item unless I buy it again. More money for them, rip off for me. I guess my biggest complaint about 3rd party gift deliveries is that the creator is not always online to reply in time for last minute shoppers. I suppose I should work on not being such a procrastinator.

Again thanks for the replies. Not being a creator I don't always understand the reasons for things, I just needed some explanation. Hopefully someday the Lindens will get the permissions controls set up in such a way that items can be transfered, copied within one's own inventory though once one is given away they all disappear....probably will never happen though.